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But it's really in there because it's a way to save money. it saves $338 billion, which makes the -- what you have to swallow, if you are a republican deficit hawk, slightly smaller with this bill. but, yes, look, the problem with complex bills is that they're complex. you pull one string over here and you -- maybe you gain someone, but you likely lose someone. you shift the individual mandate out i have a hard time believing rand paul who is a yes on this bill, stays as a yes. and that's the problem. for every one addition, there's at least one sub tractitraction. that's the difficult math he...

>> nbc news capitol hill correspondent joins me. it's no surprised he's saying we know where the white house stands on obamacare. absolutely know. they had fine time to repeal and replace and they didn't. do they really think this is going to be in the senate bill? once they pull it out, other republicans are going to ignore other bad things and will push this thing through. >> i think there's a real chance it could end up in the senate bill. also could potentially be taken out if, in fact, susan collins draws a line in the sand over it. it's not clear yet that it's going to be enough to make ...

Individual mandate. it is an obamacare regulation that all adults have to pay a fine if they don't have health insurance. according to the congressional budget office, repealing the individual mandate as senate republicans are trying to do would save money to the tune of about $338 billion over the next ten years. but those savings would come at a cost. won't be in the budget. it'll probably be to real people. the congressional budget office estimates that repeal of the mandate would lead to 13 million more uninsured americans by 2027. and premiums are expected to rise by 10% over and above wh...

The senate. what are you hoping the senate will keep because they are likely to do away with a lot. >> i think the biggest thing that the senate can do to keep would be the repeal the individual mandates. that brings in approximately $338 billion. keep in mind when the affordable care act went through -- >> but that goes to another area. that would not then be the sell on tax reform. >> but it would lower the debt that much. i mean, over a ten-year period of time. so yes, that's significant. >> but of the tax reform bill, what are you hoping the senate will keep so that the middle class of ame...

Reform, it makes thing potentially even more hazardous for republicans. >> and jared, it is about the math. the $338 million -- or billion dollars. i can't forget -- >> i wish we were talking millions. >> a lot of people do. a billion dollars we are talking about. that is needed for the equation to stay in this $1.5 trillion addition to the deficit? >> no question. and in fact, they are trying to balance this plan on the back of 13 fewer -- 13 million fewer people with health coverage and i agree with lonnie's characterization up to a point. but one of the biggest contributors $338 billion of ...