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Yet. what does that tell you? >> well, it tells me a couple of things. first of all, as jim had mentioned, the turnaround, if it's a controlled turn would indicate that someone of human hand did that what is perplexing about that, however is malaysia airlines' operating procedure is if there is trouble on the aircraft, before they execute the turn to come back, they need to contact malaysian airlines and let them know that that's what their intent. that didn't happen. so it does indicate there was some kind of foul play or a communication failure of some kind. but as far as the debris pattern ...

Currency smuggling. it could be immigration violations. it could be terror. so i'd want to know everything about them. the people traveling on the stolen passports. and i'd -- >> do you think? >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> do you think it's terror? >> i think it's too early to tell. i don't think it can be ruled out. i think there are some having interesting facts here. one thing i would be asking, probably the biggest question i would have to the pilots and like your other guest is from the radar signature when the plane made the turn, was that turn made by a human hand? could they tell us from ...

Is it's not under probably great stress. that's a question for david, mechanically, hydraulically with the computers. but what happens in the passenger cabin? the seat belt light goes off. we hear the ding. you're free to move about the cabin. and if there were passengers bent on, you know, storming the cabin, two or four or more, you know, that may the signal for them, the preagreed signal to get up and do something. and when we talk about how could you turn with no radio, if there is a knife at the pilot's throat and he is ordered to turn, he is not going to be able to radio. then there coul...

Something happened on board the aircraft, i believe that that aircraft was intact when it impacted the water. >> now, that brings us back to what you raise, jim. you mention there is a lot of attention on the two passengers who boarded with stolen passports. nbc news has also learned that their tickets were purchased by an iranian middle man, and that they were paid for in cash. what do you make of this? >> right. well, these are criminals on stolen passports. they don't want their identities known. they're paying for them in cash. and just like you let in here, reverend al, this is why you ha...