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Aboutism and the false equivalency isn't going to work. we're not going to let him do it. what we saw, for example, over the weekend. we saw a headline pop that when rudy giuliani was in ukraine trying to fabricate, create this dirt on joe biden, he was also almost simultaneously trying to make a buck off ukranian gas contracts. who was surprised by that? i know we're shocked to learn there is gambling going to in this establishment. so look, we are not going to let them turn the conversation away from the corruption and malfeasance that is impacting daily voters' lives. we're going to be very...

What about-ism, to not answer the question but to point to something else, from the cold war, the russians would say, but you lynched black people, when we say you don't have freedom in your country. so part of the reason there are no guardrails is donald trump himself is the disinformationist in chief. the promulgator of false narratives like no one else. what that does is give s permission to people to do that. once upon a time, the president's words were golden, and basically now it's open season. >> that is a problem, right? the president's words lack power. >> again, i would make some dis...

That doesn't seem to cause anyone to take any pause, to say, maybe we shouldn't be doing all of this or maybe we ought to -- >> no, charlie, it seems to -- >> this is all incredibly tribal. >> not only that, it seems to -- look, i've noticed in the conversation i had with a few republican, you know, they said, whoa, whoa, whoa, i'm not here to defend rudy giuliani. then they go on and they're not defending the president's behavior. they said, well, what about adam schiff, what about the democrats -- this shouldn't be throwing him out of office material, whatever it is. how long can that deflec...

Where you have these conspiracy theories that, at one time, were in the corner of the fever swamp. i mean, might have been on some websites, but i think most -- even most talk show hosts probably would have dealt with them with a lot of caution. but now you have the president, who is feeding directly and he puts that into the bloodstream and once he says something, then you have the obligation of the rest of the conservative media to say, well, maybe there's something to it or go back to the what aboutism, or the ant anti-ant anti-anti-trumpism, which is also a powerful weapon. you don't defen...

We've been long-time friends. as a lawyer, forget your political views, do you see a potential crime there? >> i think if we're going to investigate president trump over evidence that it looks increasingly flimsy to me, the only fair thing we can do in our society is look at the facts of the biden case. i think a fair-minded person would reach that conclusion and that's how i see it. >> sean: emily, you're a lawyer. >> to add two other things to the analysis, to tell you the circumstances and also timing. so, for some reason, hunter biden all of a sudden developed his expertise in the gas indu...