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Should not be paying to subsidize poor folks because they are getting a big tax cut. >> you're talking about age rating provisions in obamacare. >> ahca. >> yes. let me just tell you, the reality is and i published on this and actuaries have published on this. people 64 consume five times the amount of health care as somebody who is 20 years old. now, what the aca did is say you can't charge them more than three to one. here is what happened. remember we were talking about before the election. there weren't enough young people signing up. why? going five to one to three to one, they drove up p...

And the wealthy, essentially, should not be paying to subsidize poor folks because they are getting a big tax cut. >> you're talking about age rating provisions in obamacare. >> ahca. >> yes. let me just tell you, the reality is and i published on this and actuaries have published on this. people 64 consume five times the amount of health care as somebody who is 20 years old. now, what the aca did is say you can't charge them more than three to one. here is what happened. remember we were talking about before the election. there weren't enough young people signing up. why? going five to one to...

Today. >> there's actually a lot of -- you know this. there's a lot of regional variation in the health of the system. but i hear republicans saying it's collapsing all the time. cbo concluded it's not in a death sprieiral. and the american academy have concluded it's not in a death spiral. so are they getting it wrong? >> yeah, in my view they are because they're basically saying as long as the united states government is willing to dump unlimited amounts of money into it, it will stay afloat. >> but the professional actuaries have this wrong? >> in my view, they do. in my state, again, it's ...

But i hear republicans saying it's collapsing all the time. cbo concluded it's not in a death spiral. and the american academy have concluded it's not in a death spiral. so are they getting it wrong? >> yeah, in my view they are because they're basically saying as long as the united states government is willing to dump unlimited amounts of money into it, it will stay afloat. >> but the professional actuaries have this wrong? >> in my view, they do. in my state, again, it's not working. why are insurance companies pulling out of it if it's so actuarily sound? why are we having to shovel billion...

So, one vote, does that define your whole career in congress? i don't think so. >> but do you -- just to restate john's question, because john specifically asked you, does this open the door to allow insurers to charge much more to those with pre-existing conditions? we've read this about 20 times, the amendment, and every read, yes, it does. you would admit that, right? >> well, of course it's a business model. the greater the risk, the actuaries have to determine how great the risk is. insurance is nothing more than a business program, as you well know, so if your risk is greater, then the c...