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Collapse and leave everybody without affordable health care. we are doing an act of mercy by repealing this law. >> i believe we explained on this program before that is not true and not just because insurance actuaries say so, because they do, look at the most significant and overlooked part of the cbo score of the gop plan. "the non-group market would probably be stable in most areas under either current law or the legislation." the non-group market under current law is the healthare exchanges under the affordable care act which the seek owe says will probably be stable, not collapse, not go...

The same period. that's a shift from the working poor to the rich. joining me now the former acting administrator for the centers for medicare and medicaid services. andy, let's talk about the death spiral finding, it's gotten less attention than it deserves because the cornerstone is we cannot abide the status quo because it's imploding. cbo says not true. >> well, you're right, chris, and it's not just the cbo. standard & poor's came to the same conclusion last winter, so have the society of actuaries, so has the independent office of the actuaries, so i think what the premise of an explodin...

>> the president has stated this on numerous occasions. if we do nothing, if we just allow this to continue it will collapse on its own. >> white house press secretary sean spicer making the central argument for republicans who want to repeal obamacare -- the law is causing an insurance market death spiral, obamacare is collapsing and therefore repeal is an act of mercy. >> obamacare is collapsing. if we did nothing the law would collapse and leave everybody without affordable health care. we are doing an act of mercy by repealing this law. >> i believe we explained on this program before that...

Same conclusion last winter, so have the society of actuaries, so has the independent office of the actuaries, so i think what the premise of an exploding market really as you've said on your show, it's a neat justification for a big tax cut perhaps but it's not true in fact. >> so what do you think about the other parts of this bill? i mean, to me this redistributional aspect is so striking. here you've got huge, huge tax cut, mostly to the top 1%. in some cases the overwhelming majority, the .1%. and that's basically being taken out of medicaid. that's the exchange the bill is doing, right? ...

Denominator, that's how actuaries evaluate insurance, the less expensive for everybody. >> mitch jock is a doctor at a clinic in rural west virginia. he was on a "new york times" podcast this morning. he said for many of his patients, as many as 20% to 30% will lose their insurance. he said, quote, i think without question if the republican policy goes through and health care is withdrawn from 20% to 25% of our patients, a number of those will die for lack of appropriate health care. is that hyperbole? >> i don't know -- yes, i mean, i don't think it's necessarily high e hyperbole as much as a...