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Himself on these matters, if his defense is that he definitely didn't know that biden had come up in the discussions with ukraine, i mean, except for his advisor listening on the call, except for him having access to the transcript of the call, except for him being given the notes of that call, except for him being given the notes of that call again, except for his advisors admitting he probably read the notes from the call including the part that's explicitly about joe biden, but apart from his advisers admitting, yeah he might have read that -- but maybe he didn't get it? i mean, that is not...

Himself on these matters, if his defense is that he definitely didn't know that biden had come up in the discussions with the ukraine, i mean, except for his advisor listening on the call, except for him having access to the transcript of the call, except for him being given the notes of that call, except for him being given the notes of that call again, except for his advisors admitting he probably read the notes from the call explicitly about joe biden, but maybe he didn't get it? i mean, that is not the world's strongest defense. but that is what the vice president is leading with. that fee...