15-45 minutes of a negotiation because that's when emotions run the highest. so with this four-hour time period, it can't possibly be viewed -- it can possibly be viewed maybe as a positive thing for the police. there are also some other positives. i've been taking some notes here. interestingly enough, i just returned from texas last night, allen are, texas, where i just conducted a five-day hostage negotiation class for the negotiators, so it's interesting that now we have another incident going on in texas. but there are some negatives, of course. the fact that his brother -- on the side of...