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Leading up to the january 6th insurrection. now, perry is the first sitting member of congress that while we know of who is being called to talk about helping trump in his efforts to undermine the election. joining me now, cnn senior legal analyst ellie. nice to talk to you. nice to see you again, my friend. how are you? >> a lot to talk about. >> you don't say. you say congressman perry's attempt to run a coup at the d.o.j, you say potentially the worst abuse of power in this entire mess. tell me why you see it that way. >> laura, because it's the department of justice. it your doj, it's my d...

The question for 12 ordinary minnesotans will be was it an exec excusable accident or criminal and i just think that's a 50/50 coin toss how they will come out there. >> i won't take it personally when you said ordinary minnesotans being from minnesota, ellie, i'll take that as a different approach you new jersey person you. >> that's a compliment. >> i'll take it as that, you're right. you're right about this case. it an interesting one. most cases we've seen involving officers are about the intentional behavior, that it was not just reckless but an intentional act they intended the result or...

And there are dozens of witnesses. first of all, why is this trial taking so long? four months. >> good question, the prosecutors are making a mistake there. i was a big believer in thin to win. get your best evidence onto the jury. four months is too long, i think. >> you know, it's interesting because you think about the complicated factors involved there. the idea of trying to explain the technology alone is interesting to people figuring what does this mean and how were there so many investors you know and names that are high profile participants, as well. interestingly enough, a lot of ca...

Taser and fatally shot daunte wright just 20 years old. during a traffic stop in april. this happened in the middle of the derek chauvin trial out of minnesota and the jury is now deliberating. so how is this going to play out in your mind? she's got an interesting argument here. there is no intent requirement in minnesota. is she going to i guess evoke sympathy from the jury? >> boy, laura, whatever we have a big trial i have a sense where the jury is going. this could go either way. what is so unusual, you say there is no dispute about the facts. it's an accident. the question for 12 ordinar...

Complicated factors involved there. the idea of trying to explain the technology alone is interesting to people figuring what does this mean and how were there so many investors you know and names that are high profile participants, as well. interestingly enough, a lot of cases we're drinking through a fire hose when it comes to being a lawyer these days, ellie. >> oh, look, it's fun. it's why we do this. it's fascinating to see. elizabeth holmes the question is did she, was she engaged in your standard puffery and salesmenship or was this fraud? the evidence makes clear she gave so many speci...