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Sorry, major candidate in the republican race, but i'm throwing back to you. >> yeah, with me here in new york are cnn political commentators from across the spectrum. alyssa, you know, to abby's point, went as far as he's willing to go on trump. he went farther today than he has in the past, when he announced, and tonight, but he wouldn't answer dana's questions about a pardon, or a number of other things. >> pence had some strong moments tonight. he had a line where he said that was a direct shot at trump, he said, i know the difference between a genius and a war criminal, taking him on for ...

>> but -- >> we found out when joe biden apparently alerted the department of justice, 80 days later, they showed up at his office. that's not equal treatment. >> but the question is, allegation that investigation into obstruction, which you clearly did not do. if that is something that investigators see as possible, even enough potentially to indict the former president, do you think that that should go forward? >> well, i would hope not. i really would, dana. i mean, there's several reasons for that. number one, i think it would terribly divisive to the country. >> what you're saying is, if ...

He had with dana. that's going to ring really true to the average conservative voter in iowa. i think pence -- >> that's who he is. >> that's who he is. -- >> his lane. >> there aren't going to be any republican voters out there who are going to say, well, i believe in parental rights so much that i think we ought to let this chemical kas trags go forward, i mean, there's -- there aren't any. >> i'm a democrat, so, i'm -- you got -- i would love to hear how you guys see it, but i'm going to say, it is really painful to hear -- have somebody say, i'm a christian and then you just don't see the ...

It was weird to me. >> well, it will be where to republican voters in iowa. what he said about all those issues you mentioned will ring true, particularly around the culture issues on the transgender back and forth he had with dana. that's going to wring really true to the average conservative or evangelical voter in iowa. i think pence -- >> in a sense, that's who he's. is >> that's who he is. but look, there just are going to be any republican voters out there who are gonna say, well, i believe in parental rights so much that i think we ought to let this chemical castration go forward. there...

Treated. and while earlier in the career, the first time i ran for office, i didn't live up to that. ten years later, when the opportunity came around, we thought to do just that. and quite frankly, over the course of my years in congress, and as governor and as vice president, i always try to reflect that. you know, i think our politics are more divided than ever before, in my lifetime. but i'm not convinced the american people are as divided as our politics. you know, karen and i moved home to indiana, we bought five acres and a pond after we left the white house. and i could tell you, you k...