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Too. it just goes to show what kind of traction and mileage you can get out of something that appears, according to the times, to be nonsense. >> even the ordering of the ig report was reportedly done by rod rosenstein to appease the president. i think, you know, hogan gidley can say whatever he wants. he's said a lot of things that aren't true. but for the attorney general of the united states under oath before congress to say he thinks there was spying and he had access to all sorts of information, i think just goes to how institutions have been politicized and undermined across the board. y...

Around, you know, is throwing out these numbers that aren't true, saying support for impeachment is dropping. it's not. it's not rising, but it's not dropping, and to have 50% of americans saying they want you impeached and removed from office is not insignificant. >> it's not insignificant. you're exactly right. these numbers are indicative of a public that at this point is staying pretty much at the same place it has been. the president making up a number on twitter. i know we're all shocked about that. >> i do think it's interesting that the hearings haven't moved the needle. that's obvious...

And amended his testimony to congress. and this is why -- sorry, mr. president, you have to call it out -- he's trying to tell people things that aren't true. this is what gordon sondland said in his amended testimony. the presumption of u.s. aide probably would not occur until ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks. he went on to say, yes, now that i've listened to the other witnesses and thought about this, it's pretty clear. they must do this or they don't get the aid. >> and it's clear what you were saying, this line of defense whic...

Of clarity on what the facts are. there's a reluctance of people in congress right now both on the senate and house. to get out in front of where the facts ultimately might wind up. the release of the transcript. and the public hearings are important. in addition to see what the public makes of it all. >> on the where the facts are. it is traditionally this white house strategy to muddy the waters as much as possible and put out alternative facts, put out statements which aren't true. and over time many people who are following this on the news and reading about it, kind of think it's all kind...

President is a free man. he's not in prison. >> it starts when people make accusations about things that aren't true. and too many times in our society, we have black men that it accuses of doing things that haven't done. empathy is the key. that's what led to us having his leadership on criminal justice reform. he's used his leadership to bring the country together, to, you know, revitalize and free some people from prison. >> all right. i understand that. i didn't want to go here. so, the president says innocent until proven guilty. but he once called for the death penalty during the central...