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And they include arguments against indictment. they include attempts to poke holes in whatever prosecutorial theory they are advancing, they are their own critics as they present the case. >> that's right. that is actually something that i have always found my students, throughout the time i was teaching law, the best way to make an argument is to put yourself in the head of your opponent and make the best argument you can against your position. that is the only way you can really, thoroughly understand where a judge might be coming from, where a juror might be coming from. you don't want to b...

Them. to discuss their strengths and weaknesses and then to present a report to the president so that he would be aware of the nature of the debate and the arguments pro and con. i feel strongly that court packing, expanding the court and term limits would be very detrimental to the court and its role in our nation. >> dana: there is concern, david, about trust in the court and in our institutions in general. here is a poll showing that 61% of people believe the supreme court is mainly motivated by politics. how big of a concern was that as you all discussed these issues? >> it's a very big co...

>> if he throws the hail mary and you get more intransigence from the gop freshman class, where do we assistant for the next 15 months? >> the next 15 months both sides can take their case to the american people and let them decide, hear the arguments pro and con, some sort of large scale attempt to get this stalled economy working again. and i think that's a fight the president should relish, given that he's going to have a fight anyhow, and he's not going to get through the small ball kind of program that he wants to get through in the first place. >> here's one criticism of gene's proposal,...

Because they don't want to. and they don't believe it inn it and b.ance, th they don't want him out. >> if he throws the hail mary and the gop freshman class where do we stand? >> the next 15 months both sides can take chtheir case to the american people and let them decide, hear the arguments pro and con, some sort of large scale attempt to get this stalled economy working again. and i think that's a fight the president should relish, given that he's going to have a fight anyhow, and he's not going to get through the small ball kind of program that he wants to get through in the first place. ...

Because they don't want to. a, they don't believe in it, and b, they don't want to help him out. >> if he throws the hail mary and you get more intransigence from the gop freshman class, where do we assistant for the next 15 months? >> the next 15 months both sides can take their case to the american people and let them decide, hear the arguments pro and con, some sort of large scale attempt to get this stalled economy working again. and i think that's a fight the president should relish, given that he's going to have a fight anyhow, and he's not going to get through the small ball kind of pro...