On any of the officers before shots rang out. police have said no gun was found at the scene. from what you can see, was this justified, the use of a rifle? >> well, whether it's a rifle or it's a -- a -- a -- an automatic weapon, a handgun, it's somewhat irrelevant. the question becomes are they justified in using deadly physical force to prevent deadly physical force being used against someone else or themselves? based upon the facts and circumstances, as i understand them, and based upon the knowledge that the officers had, i think they had to act -- act in the manner in which they did in o...