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All right, welcome back. two dueling memos. only one made public thus far. republicans have released their assessment of how the fbi used the fisa surveillance program during the 2016 campaign. but, the committee and president trump have yet to okay the release of the democrats document. as for the gop memo, it claims the fbi abused the fisa program to spy on trump campaign former foreign policy adviser carter page, who also had multiple contacts with russians. so what exactly is the fisa process all about? and what does it take to actually get a surveillance warrant? all right, avery freeman,...

Criminal law, no knowledge of criminal procedure, no knowledge of the fisa application. he puts this together. for the president to say this totally exonerates him, it's scary, fred, because it shows a complete lack of intellect, of knowledge of criminal procedural, of knowledge of criminal law and common sense. it's absurd. we're on the level of absurdity right now, fred. this kevin nunes in our lifetime could well be the most corrupt, dishonest -- >> oh, now, wait, that's not fair -- >> -- congressman we have ever seen. yes, it is. >> avery, if the memo -- some worry that the memo might unde...

Number one, can you indict a sitting president? that's a question up in the air. number two -- >> i think you can. >> number two, just remember, fred, just remember, in order to draft articles of impeachment in the house, you need a majority vote to do that. and in order to convict in the senate, you need a two-thirds vote. >> two thirds, right. >> they're never going to get that. >> but, fred -- >> and they fear trump will tweet against them so they're spineless in conduct and they won't stand up to this president and that's where we're at. it's very sad. >> okay, all right, we're going to le...

Investigation. these individuals were all participating. and it gets right down to the question of willful obstruction. and that's that intent issue is why mueller's being so careful here. and frankly, while i don't want to say the evidence is overwhelming, it is substantial and mueller's going to pull the trigger when he thinks it's time. but it is substantial. substantial evidence. >> wow. all right, that word willful. you said willful interference. willful obstruction. we got to remember all that as we continue to learn more or not. avery freeman, richard herman, thank you. always good to s...

Nothing wrong. honestly, it's very bad for our country. it's making our country look foolish. this is a country i don't want looking foolish. it's not going to look foolish as long as i'm here. we've been very open and i want to get that over with. >> avery freeman, civil attorney and law professor in cleveland. good to see you both, happy new year. >> hi, fred, happy new year. >> avery, you just heard the president, he said no collusion, no crime. he's open. what do you make of all he has said? >> there is no crime of collusion, this is a case of obstruction. he's not saying no obstruction, h...