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that's a big difference. how do you see it settled? >> you know more about the politics of this, neil, than i do. the fed is not a political position. so however they sort it out, whatever the negotiations, whatever the details, they just need to do it before we default on treasuries. because what are we going to pay the -- the military has to be paid. the veterans benefits, medicare, social security. >> neil: you hope cooler heads prevail. while i have you, i want your thoughts with all the banking stuff going on, you can't address individual banks. i get that. the irony of this situation is bigger banks get bigger. could you have envisioned at the time of the meltdown and coming out about institutions considered to be to fail, now we have a j.p. morgan chase that counts for one out of five deposits in this country?
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on the one hand, you've seen strong bipartisan support in congress you have republican leaders, both chambers of congress going to kyiv. there is a constant procession of u.s. politicians going to kyiv, saying, "we're here. we're with you for the duration." yet, at the same time, european leaders are watching what is going on in the primaries. they're watching what donald trump is saying. that's no surprise but now, they're hearing what governor desantis is saying, which is clearly a shift for a long time, he said nothing about these subjects what he is saying now is worrying there is en certainty, has there has been many years, about can we rely on the u.s.? do we know the u.s. will be here right now, the stakes in that are up credibly high, given the war in ukraine. >> i heard from a biden administration official this morning, saying the other fear they have about what desantis and trump are saying about ukraine, it might inspire republicans in congress now to start trying to cut back funding to send this year to the war effort it'll embolden putin we want to shift to the banking
the more he shows he's got to change to fit the electorate, the more it suggests he's not as electable as he thought. you see the candidates like buttigieg and warren moving up. oddly, no one's mentioning bernie sanders. part of that, i think, is that he seems to be banking stuff in some ways. he's out and organizing with walmart workers and mcdonald's workers, with teachers. he's going to these things he's not even talking about a vote for me. he's actually going out and practicing what we've seen a lot with these teacher strikes, which is sort of like a broader organizing that is beyond his own campaign and i think he's banking support that we may see later. >> dave, let's look at the "des moines register" poll. you have bernie sanders, warren, pete buttigieg next to each other, 16%, 15%, and 14%. elizabeth warren and bernie
oddly, no one's mentioning bernie sanders. part of that, i think, is that he seems to be banking stuff in some ways. he's out and organizing with walmart workers and mcdonald's workers, with teachers. he's going to these things he's not even talking about a vote for me. he's actually going out and practicing what we've seen a lot with these teacher strikes, which is sort of like a broader organizing that is beyond his own campaign and i think he's banking support that we may see later. >> dave, let's look at the "des moines register" poll. you have bernie sanders, warren, pete buttigieg next to each other, 16%, 15%, and 14%. elizabeth warren and bernie sanders are occupying a very similar lane. >> uh-huh. i think that's fair. they share a lot of supporters. keep in mind bernie sanders got 50% of the vote practically in the last caucuses. he has a third of that right now. you meet voters constantly if iowa who voted for him last
out. and i also want to say the pardon is of much lesser value because there are a whole lot of state crimes and when he -- when you listen to that lawyer for 40 minutes and then said i'm guilty, some of the crimes are state offenses as well. and so if he does chicken out and clam up, he has state liability as well. >> virtually all of the banking ones could be brought in a state court. the lobbying not as much but the banking stuff. >> and it would be right in his home state of new york where there are unfriendlies at every level, including the likely next attorney general. i want to play for you the defense donald trump is down to and his remaining defenders and rudy giuliani his tv lawyer touted this out on hannity on friday. >> the plea agreement has -- and cooperation agreement has nothing to do with the trump campaign. reality is no evidence of collusion. look at the plea. it is to crimes that have to do with manafort's past and no involvement with president
>> and, matt, the coordination with schneiderman has to be an extreme irritant to the president. it was eric schneiderman who fought the president to a $25 million settlement on the trump university case. that was $25 million that president trump vowed he would never pay but was forced to pay as a result of attorney general schneiderman's pursuit of that case. so schneiderman has been on the trump case before. >> sure. i mean, look, if you are bob mueller, of course you're going to want to make sure you know who is in what lane in new york. when you're looking at banking stuff, new york is the center of the universe. but the long and the short of it, at least the political reality in the short term is none of these guys, whether it's manafort or flynn can be playing in the short term for pardons. i mean they've got to be playing to win. you know, they've got powerful lawyers, and you don't want to hold out your hope for a pardon. that frankly opens up a whole host of problems for the president, not the least of
never pay but was forced to pay as a result of attorney general schneiderman's pursuit of that case. so schneiderman has been on the trump case before. >> sure. i mean, look, if you are bob mueller, of course you're going to want to make sure you know who is in what lane in new york. when you're looking at banking stuff, new york is the center of the universe. but the long and the short of it, at least the political reality in the short term is none of these guys, whether it's manafort or flynn can be playing in the short term for pardons. i mean they've got to be playing to win. you know, they've got powerful lawyers, and you don't want to hold out your hope for a pardon. that frankly opens up a whole host of problems for the president, not the least of which that once you've been pardoned. congress can haul you in front of an open session and demand you testify publicly because you don't have the right to the fifth amendment protections anymore. so i mean that's interesting in
jamie dimon or held of wells fargo or head of bank of america. they clearly are far more prepared to answer the questions than the people asking the questions are to ask the questions. supply the questions by staff members. they are not bankers. they have a peripheral knowledge of the financial services industry. so jamie dimon, it's a home run for him. the larger point, joe, though, i would think, is that, you know, these hearings are teed up for publicity, for the members on both sides of the aisles, republican and democrat, and yet out in the country, back to what al hunt and the panel was talking about, i mean, we're looking at a bus ride here and we're trying to figure out who is going to drive the bus. is it going to be the president or is it going to be governor romney. all of this stuff is in the rearview mirror, the banking stuff. sure the volcker rule is important to a certain extent, no doubt about that, but people want to know, where are we going? where are you going to take us? that's the question that's out there in the country. >> you know the other question
interview is somebody who's been thinking about those things with a very specific part of the occupy wall street movement. his name is carn ross, author of "the leaderless revolution: how ordinary people will take power and change politics in the 21st century." mr. ross is best known as the diplomat who quit his post in the british government in protest of the iraq war. he now runs a non-profit group called independent diplomat. on this banking stuff, he is working with a part of the occupy wall street movement that calls itself the alternative banking working group. carn ross, thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> what is the overall idea of there being an alternative banking working group? >> well, i think the idea is that clearly banking was part of the problem, perhaps is the problem at the heart of our economy. of course, the credit crunch. it's an unequal, unfair system that's prone to risk. if you solved banking, maybe you'd solve bigger problems in the economy. that's the idea behind the alternative banking group. we're trying to think of