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Quoted in there talks about the submerged state. she did this great research. have you used a government program? right? all these people said no. people reported never having used a government program. 57%. actually people who have not used a government program is 4%. if you look at the different kinds of government programs, the more submerged it is, the less likely. if you're on food stamps, people know that's a government program. only 25% of people say i haven't gotten a federal program. if you look at unemployment insurance, 43%, the home mortgage deduction, okay, 60% of people getting t...

Have you used a government program? right? all these people said no. people reported never having used a government program. 57%. actually people who have not used a government program is 4%. if you look at the different kinds of government programs, the more submerged it is, the less likely. if you're on food stamps, people know that's a government program. only 25% of people say i haven't gotten a federal program. if you look at unemployment insurance, 43%, the home mortgage deduction, okay, 60% of people getting the home mortgage deduction which is just another way of the government writing...

No. you can always go to our blog at ed@msnbc.com. for more on this, let me turn to my friend congressman john larson of connecticut. good to have you with us tonight. >> good to be with you, ed. great, great introby the way. >> well, thank you, sir. you add to it. you're now taking over "the ed show." what do you think? what is going on here? >> the other thing, is this is all the underpinnings for the true message. and when they talk about entitlement reform, this is what really cuts i think to the core, and democrats especially. but people all around the country, whether you're democratic, ...

Liabilities of pensions all over the budget and not just on the back of one group of people being our soldiers. $6.3 billion in is a lot of money in the scheme of things and in the $3.7 trillion budget it's not a lot of money and we can find a lot of money to do that. >> are you suggesting it would come from other people's pensions besides? >> you're indexing the index and what the resolution yesterday that passed the senate after the budget passed, said that we should put everything on the table and not just the pensions of soldiers and all benefit programs and all ways to find savings and fi...

Painful. >> a lot of people department g -- department get that. the organizing strategy is if we agreed not do something done a they succeeded. >> stan, it is interesting here what the cbo said about the future. to put the federal government on a sustainable path to the long term, lawmakers would have to make significant changes to tax and spending policies, letting revenues rise, reducing spending for large benefit programs below the projected levels or adopting some combination of those approaches. when is the politics ever going to be there for that, though? let's be realistic. >> there ar...