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And second, anything that arises directly out of that. but let's talk about that for a minute because the things that may arise directly out of an investigation into, for example, paul manafort's financial dealings could very well implicate state laws in any number of states. that's where the coordination is not only appropriate, it's necessary because bob mueller cannot dig into and bring charges in state cases. that's why i have assumed all along there has been just this kind of coordination between the mueller team and when they find evidence of state crimes, any number of state jurisdictio...

Directly out of that. but let's talk about that for a minute because the things that may arise directly out of an investigation into, for example, paul manafort's financial dealings could very well implicate state laws in any number of states. that's where the coordination is not only appropriate, it's necessary because bob mueller cannot dig into and bring charges in state cases. that's why i have assumed all along there has been just this kind of coordination between the mueller team and when they find evidence of state crimes, any number of state jurisdictions implicated. >> ari, what are t...

House is saying this expedition is a fishing expedition. i know when they made that point, you say, yes, this is a wide-ranging investigation, but it's what the committee has the mandate to do, to look into areas that bob mueller cannot. when you look at this list, it's interesting, because you see donald trump jr., you see eric trump. ivanka trump is conspicuously absent from your list, and privately one of your colleagues said there is concern that involving her will backfire politically against democrats. how dedicated are you to finding out what the truth was? >> donald trump and his assoc...

This from the mueller team -- run underneath the surface. every now and then the subsurfaces you see an indictment or a search warrant or a plea agreement. buy at all other times they are beneath the surface. we don't want witnesses leaking statements and don't want information leaked to the press. bob mueller cannot be happy about it. >> you know this world well. you know how cases like this work. i know you can't guarantee there haven't been leaks but how confident are you that leaks out of mueller world have been either zero to minimum? >> very confident. i worked for the man. i know a numb...

About whether a president can be indicted or not, that's still an open question despite the% that many people months ago were saying it wasn't and on the question of pardons -- i think you have jack goldsmith said on your site that the president had almost unlimited powers, others say, though, that the founders never intended the pardoning power to allow a president to pardon those that were part of his own investigation so these are just two examples of cases that the supreme court may be having to decide before this is over. >> and count among those a third which is probably more immediate t...