We've seen a place that was always contesteded, always tense, turn into a much, much darker and scarier place. and it's all part of this culture of punitive enforcement really that the emphasis has been purely on that for years and years and years. and for this new legislation, for the debate to start with talking about the first talking point to be more enforcement before we get to a path towards legalization, to me, is really the wrong place to start. >> okay. but you're talking about the negative sequences, unintended consequences of border build-up. it's pretty obvious i'm sympathetic with...