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Torturing them. >> yeah. and understandably so. before we switch gears to oil prices, i know that vice news interviewed james mitchell, that's the cia contractor identified as the architect of the program. let's take a listen to this. >> to me it seems completely insensible that slapping ksm is bad, but sending a hellfire missile into a family's picnic and killing all the children and, you know, killing granny and killing everyone is okay for a lot of reasons. one of the reasons is, what about that collateral loss of life? and the other one is, if you kill them, you can't question them. >> wha...

Language and some of the abuses in here do strike me as torture. but my hunch is that the vast majority of the american people will come down basically on dick cheney's side on this. >> i think he points out the fact that we have shifted from capture and interrogation to drones without human intelligence and calls into question how we're going to continue on in this war without it. and just like the contract was talking about, what that means when you have a collateral loss of life anyway. is torturing a terrorist worse than killing an innocent? at the same time, i think there are a lot of peo...

About that collateral loss of life and the other one is, if you kill them you can't question them. >> vice news giving that interview with that cia psychologist, james mitchell believed to be the architect of the techniques used in interrogations and obviously the big news of this week so far is the reaction to this report. you just heard former vice president dick cheney here on special report. let's bring in our panel. john goldberg, senior representative of national review. amy stoddard and charles krauthammer. vice president? >> vice president. i thought it was very impressive, forthright,...

Between the tactics used by our enemies who seek to use car bombs to target civilians. bill: james mitchell wsht psychologist kretd credit ited with designs the tactics said this. >> it seems commit innocencible that slapping ksm is bad. but snldsing a hell-fire missile into a family's picnic and killing children and killing everyone is okay for a lot of reasons. one of the reasons is what about that collateral loss of life. and if you kill them you can't question them. bill: we bring in jonah. where do you come down on the issue of drones versus interrogation. >> morally this always