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Accomplish for them? >> i don't know. i think it's a mistake to keep hammering this because i think if you look objectively at what has happened here, i really don't think mueller is trying to make a collusion case against the president. i think mueller is pursuing his original objective which is russia's interference in the election of which the collusion thing was one strand. my view of it is, he's interested in manafort because of manafort, not because of trump and collusion. the reason i say that is, he's had to gates as a cooperator for six months. and yet what has happened since gates ha...

Justify how the same or similar cases have been handled on the two different categories of people. i'm not as convinced that what we started with was russian collusion. i really think what we started with is russia interference in the election and that is still -- >> sean: that is what they called it, right? >> supposed to be at least -- well, no. they said the collusion was one thread of an investigation into russia's involvement in the election. i'm pretty convinced that mueller is not pursuing a collusion case now -- >> sean: it's obstruction case. >> -- against president trump. i think it ...

Ken, i want to start with you. this is an explosive, explosive claim from omarosa that the president knew about the wikileaks emails before wikileaks released them. she is not offering any proof, but she certainly is implying, ken, that she has handed that stuff over to robert mueller's team. and just in case you are wondering or questioning whether she actually was interviewed by robert mueller, i checked in with one of her lawyers. one of her lawyers did confirm that. >> right. i mean, this goes to the heart, katy, of the collusion case that some people suspect that donald trump was involved...

Oppression by taking a knee." his message, stay strong brothers. andy scholes, remind us where colin kaepernick is in all of this. he wasn't resigned, there's been debate about that. >> of course there has been. he's the one who started it and he had to fall on the sword for the whole thing and if you look at it now it's silly the way his nfl career ended because he wasn't the only one kneeling, he was just the guy that started the movement and the fact he doesn't want to have a job in the nfl, it's not right. because to think he's not one of the best 90 quarterbacks in this country, it can't ...

Two items, the collusion case and the obstruction case. what would the president consider sitting down two with the approval of his attorneys? how much has this conversation evolved? >> well, i think we have to take everything rudy giuliani says with a grain of salgt. and when we're only hearing about these conversations from him, it is very unclear to me how accurate he is in relaying those conversations. but if it is true that giuliani is considering a response to mueller and that they are continuing to negotiate about this interview, it surprises me a little bit. mueller has the carrot of a...