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Telling the truth and obviously you can imagine that it breaks down a little bit along partisan lines who thinks cohen was lying to them and who thinks cohen is lying now, but at the very least we know that he was asked in these congressional situations whether or not the president knew about the trump tower meeting beforehand. >> right, and our understanding is that he said no, which was the party line at the time. so for him now to be coming out and saying that he has this bit of evidence, that just so happens to be really the closest thing to a smoking gun that you could have for building t...

Down a little bit along partisan lines who thinks cohen was lying to them and who thinks cohen is lying now, but at the very least we know that he was asked in these congressional situations whether or not the president knew about the trump tower meeting beforehand. >> right, and our understanding is that he said no, which was the party line at the time. so for him now to be coming out and saying that he has this bit of evidence, that just so happens to be really the closest thing to a smoking gun that you could have for building the case that he had advance -- both the collusion case that the...

Russians and that would be a collusion case. >> michael, based on your reporting, is this something that the special counsel wants to talk to the president about? does he want to talk about him about his twitter feed? >> in march, the special counsel's office was trying to make the argument to the president's lawyers about why he should sit for an interview and they went through the different subjects they wanted to ask him about as a way of sort of getting him to do it. and several of them related to the tweets. tweets about jeff sessions from last july, when the president was privately tryin...

To criticize them. he is an official of the u.s. government and he can't use his twitter account to punish americans. so i think there's a lot here that is going to help mueller in prosecuting this case. >> jill, what does this latest development, again, "the new york times" reporting here, what does this tell us about where the mueller probe stands right now? >> well, it certainly, this focuses on obstruction of justice. and i think the case for obstruction has been clear for over a year, it's very, very clear now and i think that's where he may be focusing for anything he will do before the ...

Violations of criminal law are the things that he's charged with, among others is acting as a foreign, unregistered foreign agent, by the way. so, you know, we're not going to see the full story necessarily in the criminal trials. what we want to look at i think are some of the indictment thats mueller is bringing against the russians which will lay out some of the background of what was going on and where we can connect those dots remains to be seen. >> my understanding is some of these five witnesses actually have to do of testimony that did take place during the campaign where manafort did ...