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About, like massoud, who lied to the investigators. the beginning of this investigation, andy mccarthy, is what a lot of republicans and a lot of viewers want to know, having looked at some of the question marks. this is not something robert mueller has been getting into. the ig and the other investigation. >> yeah, this goes to there being so little evidence of collusion, i think the issue they started to try and hone in on the first hearing -- and we will hear more about it today, in the second hearing -- when did they know that they did not have a collusion case? it seemed to me that was on...

Is using two different standards within the same report when it comes to russia collusion, the standard seems to be whether there is sufficient evidence to bring charges, but when we turn the tables to obstruction of justice, the standard is exoneration. a much higher barrier to clear. that is within the same report. and i am baffled why he continues to set the standard of exoneration. we heard from rudy giuliani -- go >> bret: let's take a listen to that. >> he has lost his notion as a lawyer it is astounding that he is expounding on can we exonerate or can't we exonerate? the reality is, he ...

That. remember, those things are also coming to the fore probably in the next few days. >> melissa: bret, of course we heard the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani, a short time ago, and his impression of this period was played again for our audience in case they didn't hear it >> he has lost his notion of the american status. to become as a leader, it's astounding that he is expounding on whether we can exonerate, can't we do this, can we do that. the reality is, he doesn't have a case. he doesn't have a collusion case, an obstruction case. i mean, if he was constrained by this justice departm...

I'm being transparent, i'm being cooperative. despite what the attorney general says, i think the president is far from being cooperative. >> i brought this up for just that reason. i had the staff bring it up. we were getting ready for the program beforehand. when the president says no collusion, no obstruction, that's not true. in the sense that robert mueller said i could not find the evidence to bring a collusion case, the president is right about that. i just mentioned, you're look at one page here. after more than a year of discussion, the president declined to be interviewed. you can go...

Betrayal. he wants to us forget that he lied to the american public about dealing withpute andn russia and putin's own ooffice while campaigning in order to make hundreds of millions of dollars. there's so much he did that is wrong and we've gotten focussed on the criminal side of this, which he wants, because if he can't be indicted and he can argue the collusion case, he's already done so much though that if we weren't living in these tribalized time of politics, he would have been raked over the coals and the public would have rejected him for this. >> jerry ford, he pardoned nixon. everybo...