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Perjury trap because they're going to have to say to the public, look, here's why he can't do this thing, that most people would say if he did nothing wrong why can't you answer. >> that would be their strategy for ignoring a subpoena? >> the president would have to explain. he can say this is a witch hunt over and over again. the average person will say, just go and answer the questions. >> if you have nothing to hide, that's what i tell my 6-year-old. ashley parker, roger stone seems to be the person in the swirl today on the collusion side of the investigation, the manhattan madam went in a...

Totally legal and done all of the time in politics. and it went nowhere. i did not know about it, the president wrote this morning. the conversation, as i understand it, chris, about this interview has centered on whether the president would be willing to talk about obstruction, on the one hand and also the collusion side, as well. how did the conversation change, as you see it? how is it likely to have changed as the president sits down with jay sekulow and rudy guiliani in light of what he tweeted this morning? >> so i think what you have is a variety of steps to figure out if you're going t...

Fire. >> i think that's a rare possibility. i don't know that's going to happen. i think based on what we know now -- >> don't know what's going to happen. >> that he comes back with nothing. we know enough now to know i think the president knew something. we don't know exactly the extent. >> suppose mueller comes back and says all of this -- >> we can't indict him. >> i can't indict him. you don't think donald trump will use that for a victory lap? >> absolutely. >> will that not affect the midterm. >> it will affect -- absolutely and it will affect the midterms. here's the thing. i think the...

Talking about executive power rmt. as long as they underscore that the isn't in the clear. >> it's a different strategy than collusion. on the collusion side they a cert no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. in this instance they seem to be laying out a legal argument.

As long as they underscore that the isn't in the clear. >> it's a different strategy than collusion. on the collusion side they a cert no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. in this instance they seem to be laying out a legal argument. >> the president's conduct is under scrutiny with the obstruction of justice piece. when it comes to the trial of former campaign chairman of paul manafort, we didn't really know paul. he wasn't really involved for a long time or george papadopoulos, he was just a coffee fetcher on the campaign. they can move away from the individuals who were really under sc...