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Bleak? >> well, because the foundation of the american economy is no longer manufacturing. our economy has been seized by wall street speculators. >> you think the economy is behind it all? >> yeah, sure. i mean, there was an article in today's "new york times" about the fracking industry being the next bubble. we have student debt. we have got -- the economy is extremely weak. and you saw with the tax cuts, these major corporations went and bought back their own stock. so -- because their compensation packages are tied to stock or hoarded it. they didn't invest in the country, and this is wha...

Benefits? medical expenses for each labor, or force another country to raise them? the arguments that it's not fair, that argument can you make whenever there is liberty, whenever there is capitalism. that, is the whole notion is to spread opportunity and spread wealth, right? >> yeah. mark: so people can benefit from it? >> in some cases, wages in the united states are not marked to determine wages, higher wages like in the auto industry, you think of the uaw, where their wages and compensation packages were way out of whack based on the rest of the world. that exposed that industry because t...

Salaries? benefits? medical expenses for each labor, or force another country to raise them? the arguments that it's not fair, that argument can you make whenever there is liberty, whenever there is capitalism. that, is the whole notion is to spread opportunity and spread wealth, right? >> yeah. mark: so people can benefit from it? >> in some cases, wages in the united states are not marked to determine wages, higher wages like in the auto industry, you think of the uaw, where their wages and compensation packages were way out of whack based on the rest of the world. that exposed that industry...

We don't have to fly people to certain places. we try to use volunteers on the ground rather than fly them in from all over the country. we're always looking for ways to keep our costs low. we're very proud that our overhead is only 9 cents. and we do that so we can put more munny to the people we serve. >> given that you're trying to keep costs low. has the red cross recently given any reconsideration to compensation packages? >> actually, our ceo is very much in the middle range of salaries for charities and, particularly, for a charity the size -- 5$500 million. but it's really in the middl...

Drawer as opposed to my national cash register, you're going to make people behave worse than they would if you had the proper safeguards. >> let's talk about the amount of money that john stumpf has left with. he left wells with a $130 million package. he did have $41 million of that compensation clawed back. is that right? >> you can judge whether anybody runs a business, whether it's right, the amount they get voted. but the shareholders and the directors put a proxy statement that thick, and he's earned it, it's probably part of a contract that describes the conditions under which, you kno...