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Place. i want to get to another. we also learned that the president only released the aid to ukraine crucial military assistance after learning that there was a whistle proceeder complaint exposing this pressure campaign. cause get to the legal question of corrupt intent here? >> look, it's a time line. i understand the hooray henrys that want to draw inferences from what the time line signifies. look, the president made a request to ukraine with regard to burisma and the investigation of the bidens. it was not a demand. so nick, your reference to pressure and force is not extortion and it's n...

>> there is evidence that ukrainian people, maybe not the government, the ukrainian people were involved. he is thinking this, he has been told this by rudy giuliani and wants to get to the bottom of it. i don't see anything impeachable at all. most of the call he had was congratulating the newly elected president in parliament but also going into a big explanation how other countries are not giving enough aid. you have to really prove corrupt intent. i don't see it at all. jillian: you will be a key player is this moves on to the house judiciary committee. we will all be tuned in and see if t...

The bidens is a problem of ukraine corruption? >> it's not the president's fault that the -- >> but it's the president's fault that the only thing he asked for is help with something that benefited him politically. >> if burisma was already being investigated -- >> and they closed it. >> at biden's behest. >> no, no, no. >> no? >> not true. ukraine closed it. biden was out of office. >> that's because of the kru corruption in my opinion and that's the president's -- >> you just hit the nail on the head. the president could have had corrupt intent. the other side is wanting to judge his intent....

Say they were concerned about rudy, they raised red flags about this, that this is what the president wanted, they couldn't get away from it. what am i missing? >> well, you're not. you've got people who not just are saying after the fact that they were concerned about the call. at that time they actually took action. they went and sought out john eisenberg and reported their concerns, went to their bosses, bolton or whoever, report it to the lawyers, morrison is told that on several occasions we have a clear and well substantisu substantiated record from those who heard the same phone call an...

And if he honestly believed those things, actually that is a very strong defense to bribery. >> it is, however, he winds up in the same place. because that's why, you know, to your point about this being complicated you both wind up being right. if this were a criminal prosecution, you have to prove corrupt intent. the solicitation would be the bribe. however, in this process you don't need to show a crime. you need to show an intent to abuse your power. that is where he has trouble here, ross. he didn't want to give them the aid. he did not use the right mechanism to get it. it is not just a ...