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Areas where the states do have the responsibility of pushing back, particularly in the area of education. i do have a concern. i am not advocating of doing away with the department of education, but i have concerns of educational matrix laid out there -- >> well, just to be clear, the federal government is a small partner in education, at the state and local level. it's 8% of the total level. i understand your opinion around mandates -- >> one of the things that was discussed last night at great length was the race to the top program when the obama administration has put in place which is usin...

The kinds of things he said will be. >> here is the key he made that i have not heard made. i think people have a sense that we are dealing with a fixed pie at a zero sum game, and what will happen is you will give health care to these people and there is there's a fixed quantity of it and i will get less. and the key point is the more comprehensive the system is the better it works together and we engineer a high quality system, and what happens is the costs come down. >> it's also the reality of how bad and how dysfunctional american health care is. this is my other question to jar you had, ...

Strange format. >> the governor is trying to turn over the -- >> well, i was going to say a lot of it is the tantrum, because as was said, it's easiest to ignite people against the common evennemy. it takes on a life of its own. i find a certain laziness at the heart of the aspect. >> i think there is -- i think that's true. there is also a lot of sincerity. it was manifest and people do take the state and federal division of power and that has been used as a proxy for very -- >> all sorts of things. >> yeah, but what i did think was interesting is you do have a

Takeover, government takeover, and when that happens what is sacrificed on the other end? that's our concern with the other government. >> i am more moved about the point you made about absent fathers. seems to me these issues of the families would be more resident with your constituency than for example what went on with fannie mae and freddie mac. and there was a time in the '70s and the '80s where the government was involved in what you could call subsidizing people not to be married and that was a problem for minority communities, and i am with you on that, and i think welfare reform in 19...

He articulated the best case i have heard for the affordable health care act. >> he also hears an extraordinary decent and humane, a man that knows the field better than anybody. to me it suggests a few things, one the dysfunction of the system, the republicans who would holed up the confirmation, and he became a pinata for the affordable care act. as the former head of the agency ran under bush said you could not get gandhi through the -- >> he was a polarizing figure. >> what he spoke for me is so important. and essentially, he is saying, health care is a human right, it's a human right and ...