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Fact that you had multiple people quit over this i think is important information. but there was also a lot of concerns, a memo written, you know concerns that this violates the law, that the -- there was pretty much nobody other than donald trump -- according to david his concern here, right, was that ukraine was so corrupt and therefore that's why this money had to be withheld. and yet nobody who actually worked on the issue has testified that that was the case. and in fact i think it was mark sandy who testified saying that they had made a lot of advancements in terms of anti-corruption, an...

Little bit more. but at the same time, we don't really know a lot about them ourselves, do we? >> not yet. >> we're going to find our more and more. but remember rudy giuliani comes from new york. he was mayor of the toughest city in the world, prosecuting mafia. he's been around a lot of different kinds of people, people you and i probably wouldn't want to spend any time with either. >> now we move down the spectrum. this ukraine did it, everybody debunks this theory. people have invested time and money in trying to figure it out. bossert says it's been debunked. the crowdstrike thing has bee...

States it -- >> we've been investigating stuff all over the police. >> but the evidence is there. >> the evidence is not there. >> yes, there are members of the staff of the ukrainian embassy that say it happened. >> for all of you, tom bossert was one of the head security analysts for this president. he's a friend of the president. here's what he said. >> not only a conspiracy theory, it is completely debunked. let me just again repeat that it has no validity. >> why? why would the senate intel committee run by a republican say the same thing? he was talking about the crowdstrike rumors and h...

People invested time and money into trying to figure it out. the crowdstrike thing has been debunked. they have part of their ownership as ukraine but they're a california company. do you really believe that ukraine, not russia, was to blame for the 2016 interference? >> i believe, as you know, when the democrat emails were leaked before the convention, i came out immediately and warned the obama administration that this is russia and something had to be done about it stat. i've always thought it was russia. i'd love to see the fbi prove it was russia and prove that i was right, but just becau...

Poroshenko ordered his people to meddle in the united states elections. has nothing to do with crowdstrike. >> that matters and here's why. we'll see what they do did the other thing, that's ukraine as business. two, the president has 100 times more reason than you to know that the crowdstrike thing is b.s. because these people all work for him, the intelligence community -- committee. they all came to the same conclusion. he knows it, he was briefed on it, they were briefed on it. he says, no, i think it happened. how is that not all by itself an abuse of power. if you're so confident all the...