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To his comments that, he would be gunning for war, no pun intended, very provocative. what do you make of that? >> well, no, i don't think those actions with respect to the ukraine would have been provocative at all. i think the fact of the weakness of the american and european response to what putin was doing in ukraine was an encouragement to the russians. it was sense they could go further, they could take control of the cry meria, they could keep russian forces in the don bass region of eastern ukraine. i worried that it encourages, they can do other things as well. the problem with putin ...

The imf, role of the u.s. all matters right now. >> i just think, too, as i think why this matters, it is ultimately about the united states and russia, but it's the also about what america stands for in the rest of the world, david. what is our voice? what is the president's voice? is it a foreign policy that's defined by its limitations or by its potential? and you look at, you know, this democratic fer meant on the streets. it's not just happening there, but lots of parts of the world. >> we've got a big test coming up. the crucial battlefield is in putin's mind. he's seen an autocrat fall ...