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Operations had not defied white house justice department and cia orders towards those videotapes. that's why michael hayden had to go to the hill and say, let's give you these transcripts of the interrogations and see if you can recreate the fact that those tapes exist. >> david ignacious earlier we spoke with the former cia director michael hayden. you were there. i want to show you this part when we asked him about the discrepancy about his past testimony and there are many. i have a list of at least five between his testimony in 2007 and what's in the report. >> i was telling the truth. i w...

Laden. you need to be agnostic. what this report has done is gone back and seen if you can find the pieces of information some other way and then said, aha, it was available from another channel. that is sort of looking at this history through hindsight t. question is whether it's really fair for the people doing it. >> there is criticism that this could create more problems to release it all. we will get to that, table that in a second, michael, we'll go to you. the question i have is how damming the support is. how credible it is, because is it proof that people are lying or is it proof only...

Cetera. there are some quotes that have appeared in which senator fine stein seems to be important, do it right. these are things we wouldn't want to do. but the country is in a crisis. that's what many people are quoted at the time having told cia briefers that came to see them. it's important what life felt like for all of us in 2002, 2003. so, you know, it's typically the case that congress wants this, it's delling with oversight, looks at every question except congress's own role. >> yes. >> they have kind of exempted themselves from supervision, from criticism. that's a mistake. and this ...

Program i was telling them about was because this agency had performed so badly with what i think david ignacious described earlier was an ad hock battlefield program that they had begun in afghanistan and, mica, the committees had the ig reports on the two deaths. they had the ig reports of the activities earlier in the program. everyone knew that the program i was briefing was created as a result of how badly the agency had begun to do the work early on in the war. >> david ignacious, you know, there are many with a lot of stature who say the methods used. some call those methods torture, we...

Another way to minimize the impact? she did not allow the people name in this damming investigation to defend themselves. i think that's one of the weak pieces if journalism, you do have a responsibility to say, what do you think, joe? worry saying it's about you. what's your response? so this is not a document that and his torian would write. at last contest, what people were living through as they did these things, what was going on around them not made really clear. >> that said, for what it is, it is still very valuable. >> very damming. it sounds like david ignacious is saying this is not...