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Rates. they're more like stimulus which we didn't need -- well, increase in interest rates makes the fed raise rates faster and have a trade war at the same time swamping the impact. it is a little weird, though it is a little weird for democrats to be making the deficit argument when -- last i saw, the hot take new democratic argument is this modern monetary theory that deficits don't really matter. so i mean, you can't have it both ways. -- >> you and i would agree -- the three of us would agree the only people -- democrats may say it, and i disagree with it that deficits don't matter, but a...

Paul ryan was their deficit guy, and that deficit argument, that the deficit was too big, one of their main arguments against re-elected president obama. we have just received the new estimate of what the deficit is going to be by the end of this year. this is what the deficit had been up through last year, so 2009. that's president obama's first year, 2010, 2011, 2012. now show the next year. this is what they had projected the deficit would be by the end of this year. but now that estimate has been revised. they have revised the projected deficit for this year, and as of now, this is what ...

Picked paul ryan to be their vice presidential nominee in 2012. they wanted to keep the heat on, on this deficit issue, right? paul ryan was their deficit guy, and that deficit argument, that the deficit was too big, one of their main arguments against re-elected president obama. we have just received the new estimate of what the deficit is going to be by the end of this year. this is what the deficit had been up through last year, so 2009. that's president obama's first year, 2010, 2011, 2012. now show the next year. this is what they had projected the deficit would be by the end of this ye...

Right spot in the tax argument. and my bet here is that he's only going to get better as refining and simplifying that point. >> yeah, they keep pushing on what turned out to be an open door, lawrence. a few months ago, a lot of analysts, including this one, me, wondered if pushing the fairness argument on taxes was risky for president obama. but it turns out, in a time of a bleak economy, when everybody's looking for a fair shake, that this argument really works. and it's not just that rich people are going to get more, what the president is saying now is, middle class voters are going to get...

outfront tonight, two heroes on the prowl. ♪ i need a hero ♪ i'm holding out for a hero until the end of the night ♪ ♪ he's gotta be strong and he's gotta be fast ♪ >> yes, bonnie tyler, holding out for a hero. and yes, we think we found them. first stop, senate majority leader harry reid. today in an interview with "politico" he said the $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts set to begin on january 2nd should go ahead as is. come hell or high water. i am not going to back off the sequestration. that's the law we passed. we did it because it wouldn't make things easy for...