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Ukrainian oligarch with ties to the russian mob, so they were, i think, trying to effectuate this really corrupt trade where they would get information from this ukrainian oligarch, manufactured dirt about joe biden that's not true, supply it to rudy giuliani who would supply it to the president of the united states, and in return, they were going to try to deliver for this ukrainian oligarch who is under indictment some kind of dismissal from the justice department or some kind of way for him to get out of his case. it is as corrupt as you can be and now you have both of them under indictment...

Before the american people, does that convince some of the republicans and some of these people who are on the fence that this was, in fact, the quid pro quo, the kind of real abuse of power, that a lot of people think that it was? >> mieke eoyang, thank you for joining us to start the discussion tonight. heidi przybyla, thank you for joining us with your breaking news reporting. really important to get us started tonight. and jonathan, please stick around with us. when we come back, two friends of rudy giuliani who have worked with rudy giuliani were described by their lawyer as members of ...

Statement that rudy giuliani's not welcome here anymore. >> yeah, well, first of all, mimi's exactly right. it was the justice department implicitly confirming what they can't explicitly say which is that rudy giuliani is the subject of an investigation. they can't say that because their rules prohibit them from saying that but they're letting everyone know that's why they wouldn't have taken this meeting. i think the problem for the department in taking this meeting in the first place, rudy is a walking conflict of interest. when he comes in and meets with the justice department you don't kno...

The mueller report, parnas posted this victory photo with rudy giuliani and trump's personal attorney jay sekulow at a celebratory dinner. joining our discussion now, mimi rocah, former assistant u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york and matt miller, a former spokesman for attorney general eric holder. they are both msnbc contributors. mimi, i am fascinated by the compartmentalization apparently of the knowledge that rudy giuliani and his friends were under investigation. so, we have -- it's since been revealed that, yes, william barr knew about it, was known about it at the highe...

Separate articles of impeachment? >> we do know, lawrence, that right now, she wants a simple article with an umbrella being abuse of power and underneath that, everything that happened with regards to ukraine which includes that phone call. it includes the reports about a quid pro quo about the military aid, includes pushing aside the former ambassador of ukraine in order to install the president's handpicked confidants who ref referred to themselves as the three amigos which helped push the ukrainians to try to cook up charges against the bidens. it includes all of those things but it is nar...