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Base. >> well, i think that's an important point. you wonder, like, what -- it's very hard to detect a pence for president movement out there. like, where are the pence die hards who are going to trudge true the snow in iowa and new hampshire in january and february to try to win primaries for mike pence? you just don't see it. it's possible there might be some more moderate republican who is appreciate he upheld joe biden's victory in the last election, but those same people may well feel he enabled trump over four years, catered to trump's wins, did trump's bidding and they might be resentfu...

Oddly, when virginia officials took down the statue of robert e lee this week, trump put out a statement saying the general was considered the greatest strategist of them all, he would have won the war, lots of media criticism ridicule. what do you you think the former president is going for there. >> i think it was attention. hey, it's a big thing in the fuse. it may fire up some of his supporters so by throwing that out there, knows it's too hard to resist for the media. he knew he was going to get lots of buzz about it and that the die-hards if his camp are not going to care about it. they ...

The economy, in society, they can't do the things that their friends and neighbors are doing, if they don't get their vaccine. you'd hope it didn't have to come to this, hope you wouldn't have to force people to do it but there are countries around the world doing the same sort of thing, had to implement some kind of mandates and in those instances when you implement a mandate, more people get vaccinated. they realize they want to do those things. you're right, joe biden is never going to move the 25%, the die hards, maybe a mandate would do it. maybe when they realize they have no choice that...

To ship seafood to me. that is a long i story for another conversation. and i just want you -- if you give a message to folks out there, please, please? >> i may not in what i did -- i was doing it for my family, and friends. but if it reaches other people, not those who are die hards who will never get the vaccine, but those people who are straddling the fence, i hope this message makes them fall over on the right side, to get the vaccine. >> can we put -- if we have, can we put betty's son's picture back up please? his name is brandon, and he died -- how old was brandon? >> brandon was 46. h...

Much, doesn't he cede all the ground in the world to the trump diehards? >> yeah, he's threading an impossible needle here, as scott said. he wants to run for president. there is a big trump base within the republican party and so he is trying to have it both ways. he can't, as a witness to what happened on that day, as a participant on the side of democracy. he can't renounce what he experienced and what he did, but he has to try and square the circle. i don't think that he can do that, but he also ignores the fact that that day didn't exist in isolation. that day was the culmination of month...