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They both were determined to know everything about everything. they did not have any structure. the world was keeping them away from the books. they couldn't be denied. they ended up when they get together realized how much they had in common. when i was done, neil, i think we wouldn't have needed the 60s had john wilkes booth had not wiped him out. >> neil: and near the end of the book you talk about by the end of the 20th century, lincoln came off of his pedal. douglas rose from obscurity. today these two men occupied a share space in the american experiment. doesn't lincoln have that advant...

Invasion at the same time, i'm not sure we're at that point. i honestly believe that both countries while they want to aggravate the united states, test the united states, push president biden to see how far he can be pushed, the actual application of military force, i don't think it's going to happen and if it does, i would be very surprised as i think most of the world because the cost for those nations would end up being so high in the long run that i don't think they're going to want to give that -- to bare that price. >> neil: let's hope you're right on that, commander. good seeing you ag...

>> neil: better late than never. brian kilmeade is here. we were supposed to have him weeks ago. he's on this book tour all over the country. but it's the president and the freedom fighter, abraham lincoln and frederic douglas. it's how he puts them together and their relationship and all. it's fascinating. he has a reach touch with this stuff on history and he's funny as hell, which is not a funny book, i should say but could be. very good to see you. >> thank you. it's a pleasure. you read the books. i don't know how you do it. >> neil: i love history. this is awesome. i mentioned with bret ...

Even john f. kennedy in dealing with martin luther king in all of those cases, booker t. washington, martin luther king. douglas. great inpatience. you have to do more. how did lincoln digest that? >> he was not born in a slave culture. he department have slaves. the north only had 1% of the black population, in the north. he knew about it and knew the issue. he believed there should be freedom for all. but he wasn't for equality. he said we know the black people are not as smart as the white man but they would evolve and grow. >> neil: when did that happen? this is what he was saying about bl...

Slavery and 350,000 slave owners. but he had to take his time. lincoln knew he would have no country to govern. the union was not ready to fight for slavery only. >> neil: wasn't lincoln pragmatic? >> explain that to everybody else. douglas wrote his biography seven years after escaping slave accessory. he would update it, update it. he brought us to the moments when they met. it wipes out the opinion portion of the story. >> neil: you know, you never get into this. you're focused on the time period. but lincoln would be a president and also had to deal and wanted to deal with an up and coming...