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>> when there's only been 85 done in history. i make it simple, krystal. it's a yes or no vote. it's just that simple. now it's a yes or no vote. 51 yes, it goes. if it's lower than 51, it's no and it doesn't pass. no games in between. and this is only a nominee. this is not legislation. >> right. >> and it's not even on supreme court nominees. so when they play this game, the republicans, that the sky is falling, it does not mean legislation and it does not mean supreme court. it means on administrative and judicial nominees other than the supreme court. and it also makes the senate function....

I mean, there is no question that a vote for justice is a vote for senator gillibrand's bill. >> are you saying a vote against the bill is against the troops and veterans? >> i would say that a vote against senator gillibrand's bill is a bad political move. i think the american people are watching. >> do you think that we're going to see broader institutional reforms inside the pentagon if this legislation passes? and if it doesn't pass is there hope that something changes other than this legislative solution or is this it? >> there are always other solutions, there is no silver bullet. but at...

We led to the government shutdown over something that's already the law. been passed by congress. approved by the supreme court. the debate over that should be over. >> there was an election that a lot of people say was sort of a referendum on it. >> not on this vitter amendment. this vitter amendment is new because the congressional exemption is new. >> why tie it to this? >> it's just a vote. that's all it is. >> no, no. senator graham is saying he will object if this is not connected to it. >> no, no, no. he has not said he will object if it doesn't pass. he said he will object if no vote i...

Shuts down, health care stalls and it doesn't. >> it doesn't. there are some conservatives that believe everything changes tomorrow when health care starts being implemented. it actually becomes real so that's why they're fighting so hard. that's why they think they're going to slow this down but the facts are you're not. you keep hearing republicans in the senate say that. you hear some house republicans saying that but there's not a willingness to listen and that's where the frustration lies. >> and some of the mainstream conservatives, however you want to classify these pragmatic conservati...

Can do that. just looking at the map of the republican caucus, they probably would need in the ballpark of 20 republicans to go against their leadership and more importantly to go against the conservative base, who definitely would wage political war against them for doing this. >> so basically what they would do presumably all the democrats to vote in favor, but if you're saying 20 or 30 more moderate republicans join the democrats, then they would be able to pass this procedure language to allow the government potential to stay open? is that right? ivities it would happen in the opposite way...