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>> the russians who wanted to sow distrust and weaken democracy, he's the one doing it from the top up. >> the most fundamental basis of our democracy is rooted around trust in the election process, also the willingness of the out going president to hand over to the illicit successor. there was no sign that he was willing to do that before the election, and since the election, he's still claiming distrust. >> so on that note, how dangerous will another run be for hthe future of democracy? even if he doesn't run, he will still claim the election was stolen, right?

Forward. all i can do now is look forward. and he is trying to put people into congress in 2022 that will ru rubber-stamp his policies whenever he wants. that's a big deal. let's say he doesn't run, which i hope, he will still have ththose people, those people doing his bidding. if he does run in 2024, and, again, i hope not, like i said, there will be no guardrails. i don't know what kind of people are going to be in that administration. because it wion't matter. he won't have to run again. >> the issue, as you told us, there were many opportunities where you could have said no or should have...

Heading back to his reality tv days? >> i think he'll run again because i think there's money to be made. it's like ron paul. i mean, there's no reason to not run because he can make money. he can use it for lawyers' fees. there's a sort of presidential industrial complex which republicans have for a long time run in. so i think i could see that happening. i don't know that he's -- i don't know, we're going have to see what happens in 2024, but if he doesn't run, he will wait until the last minute to drop out. he will make desantis' life horrendous, which will be kind of fun to watch. >> i gue...

Interesting to me is even if he doesn't run, the field of candidates, the potential field of candidates are modelling themselves after either policies that he shepherded when he was president or the personality that catapulted him to office. the type of appeal that he got with the white working class base that he built for the republican party. so either it's going to be president trump who is a front runner in 2024, or it's going to be someone -- it's likely to be someone who is modelling themselves after him. >> he owns the party in effect. >> exactly. >> i wonder as you look to the flip sid...

Press now than donald trump. >> yeah. >> so maybe he considers placing children's lives in danger. maybe he considers that a big political win and he doesn't allow local school boards to take measures that would protect children in their own communities. maybe that's a big win for him. >> well, look, it clearly has been so far. obviously, ron desantis would rather be in the position he's in than the position of any other republican politician in the country, except for maybe donald trump himself. he's, you know -- you're right. it's been a gold mine for him in the confines of the republican po...