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The supreme court. you're absolutely right. caitlyn, in the new bob woodward book, there is a dramatic moment described by bob woodward, whether the president's lawyers felt there was no way the president should sit down with robert mueller. the president's former lawyer, john dowd, told the president, quoting from the book, quote, don't testify. it's either that or an orange jumpsuit. now today dowd is denying that. but what does it tell you about what's going on inside that white house? >> well, we've seen the strategy change over the last few months of going from the president really wanted...

The president, don't testify. it's either that or an orange jumpsuit. woodward writes that dowd believed something about trump that he couldn't say to the president's face. quote, you're an f'ing liar. other attempts to manage trump, according to woodward, were even more drastic. he describes a scene where trump's former chief economic adviser, gary cohn, saw a letter on trump's desk that he thought was dangerous to national security, a letter which would have pulled the u.s. out of a critical trade agreement with south korea. woodward says he told an associate, quote, i stole it off his desk,...

Michael wolff's book called a dramatic rift between the president and his former chief strategist steve bannon. >> i suspect there will be. susan, according to woodward the president's former attorney john dowd called the president a liar. also told him not to do an interview with the special counsel, robert mueller. he said this according to woodward, quote, don't testify. its either that or an orange jump suit. dowd issued a statement later in the day denying that claim but what do you think? >> i don't know if dowd actually said that but we could be absolutely confident that he thinks that....

A response from the president to that at all. then he told the president -- and by the way, don't testify. because even if you're telling the truth they're going to get you. >> he -- he apparently told the "wall street journal" reporter who broke the story that he estimated on a scale of 1 to 100 in terms of chances that michael cohen would remain loyal and not flip it was -- his number was a 1. >> right. >> it was that low. >> yeah, and he said to me people who face long prison term invariably become government witnesses. this is whats. they're not -- they're not professional criminals here. ...

Don't testify, sit here quietly in a corner, we got this. i think the same strategy needs to be employed. he needs to listen to his lawyers and not say a word. he's not going to help himself. that's my view. >> what do you think, michael? is mueller going to be successful in getting the president to answer questions? >> so the difference i think in this case versus what joey said which i agree with broadly speaking is that bob mueller has a grand jury and a grand jury subpoena that he can serve on the president and it seems pretty clear they're may be some room for wiggle, it seems pretty clea...