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That superseding indictment is that trump employee for. for those of us who have been closing covering this closely, it's the i t employee in charge of all of that. he was the one that carlos de oliveira allegedly went to after had to ask about to leading a server for the boss. is it clear to you that he is gotten a target letters we are told, part of the new charges are based on what he was told by the investigators. do you think he's cooperating with them? >> yes or he is just testifying as he supposed to. but it's such a good point you make and people of large leanest. he gets the target le...

It may very well be that mark meadows has entered into a contractual agreement with the government to become a co-operator. maybe he has not entered his guilty plea yet, maybe he has. i still find it very curious that we do not have any marquee names that have flipped. that is unusual it. leads me to conclude the perhaps, jack smith is keeping his powder dry and we are going to see a sizeable january 6th indictment very soon. i still find it a curiosity. >> it would be phenomenal if mark meadows has done that. former white house chief of staff, certainly no diet coke aid, he is a big deal. dav...

Crime as the success. there is no question from what we are reading that that is what the evidence is going to show, that there was an attempt. it is a question of nauta being the one that i would really want to flip. he had the direct conversation with trump. he can say that trump said to me, and when i went down to talk to de oliveira, i said to him that the cost -- the boss, and he knew exactly who i meant, donald trump. he is the one who is really important. de oliveira really puts their screws to nauta. together, there are a really powerful team. >> i would love a future historians have t...

Mr. de oliveira, other conflicts that attorneys may have? and we know, for example, that in, i believe it's mr. nauta's attorney, has at least at one point represented the person who is referred to in the superseding indictment, as trump employee number four. who does seem to be somebody who may be cooperating. clearly you cannot represent a defendant and a co-operator in the same case. attorneys know what their ethical obligations are, or they should, and it's their responsibility to not have a conflict of interest. but sometimes, as a prosecutor, at least when i was a prosecutor, if i though...

>> it's a big deal for a couple of reasons. anytime you add a codefendant or conspirator to the mix there is a chance that that person will cooperate with the authorities against the bigger criminal fish people should know that often prosecutors will find developing witnesses before people are indicted because those potential witnesses want to play hardball and they see their name as a marquee defendant on the wrong side of the v. versus carlos and sometimes that is a wake up call. i've had lots of defendants hold strong but once they saw their name on an indictment they decided it became very...