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Thirdly, we heard from white house officials as late as last week and again early this week that there is no white house record of this call. they still have not been able to locate one. and there should have been likely because we understand there's a protocol and a practice that's demonstrated in many other instances when gordon sondland when he's trying to reach the president, he would call the white house switchboard. he wouldn't call the president on his personal cell phone. >> interesting. maybe that's why the president had to read it off of a cue card. so what does it mean for the presi...

Tell me why you're questioning if it ever really happened. >> well, there's a couple, three things we've been looking at. one is that in other parts of gordon sondland's testimony, he's talked about how he would wait until the late afternoon to call the president, try to reach him back in the white house. that call if you remember where he's sitting at the restaurant in kyiv, that happens later after lunch. this is a call that would have taken place earlier. in fact, we've looked at the time. it would have happened somewhere between 12:47 a.m., and 5:19 a.m. in washington. even at the very end...