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Been out there and you're gonna now have plenty of information and folks who had otherwise been reluctant to testify, coming forward. what is the timeline here? because a number of these folks here they're not. you know , they don't. they're not just looking for the cover of this right? they really they don't want to share information with the special counsel. they're going to do everything they can to not do this, so this will continue with an appeals process. what's the timeline? what are the next steps? my guess is that the appellate court will take it up fairly quickly. there was no questi...

Donald trump is responsible, history is going to judge him for this but at the same time saying i can't speak to jack smith because the speak or debate clause donald trump is also trying to stop him from doing so i know these comments were made in a private setting but do these comments do anything to the case for or against mike pence actually sitting with the special counsel? >> i don't think so. mike pence is trying to thread a political needle here. putting his finger up into the wind to assess how his potential voters feel about holding donald trump accountable. i think that he has made i...

Them and he does manage to drag things out. donald trump has got two big problems with his executive privilege argument here, the first one is that this is a criminal grand jury subpoena and courts tend to honor and uphold grand jury subpoenas not automatically, but typically a grand jury subpoena will overcome a claim of executive privilege. the second problem is donald trump is not president anymore. he is a former president. again, it's possible that a former president can bring an executive privilege claim, but it's much more difficult than if he were still the sitting president. i think t...

To their legislative duties. with us now to discuss is cnn legal analyst and former white house ethics czar norm eisen who served as a house judiciary special counsel in president trump's first impeachment trial. what do you make of this rather novel strategy from the former vice president and his lawyers? >> the executive privilege argument to resist testifying has failed so they are pulling another arrow from the quiver of constitutional defenses but it is not going to work because there is no absolute speech or debate or immunity for a vice president or anyone else from showing up in answer...

Politico was first to report that pence plans to argue legislative privilege citing his former role as president of the senate. that is according to a source familiar with his plans. joining me now nbc news senior congressional correspondent garrett haake. it is not executive privilege, it is legislative privilege. explain this argument and how it relates to his former role in the senate. >> we may see both arguments used. we reported last week that former president trump wants to try to make an executive privilege argument to prevent pence from testifying, saying that any conversations that t...