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To delay this, and it ultimately they will lose. >> cynthia, let's talk about his conversations that pence had with people outside the white house. some of those conversations he put into a book. so let's talk about those conversations because he included in his buck conversations with donald trump in connection with the insurrection, and efforts dealing with a 2020 election. that helped the government, right? it actually helped bolsters the government's argument that these communications are not confidential anymore, because pence already share them with their parties, right? >> everything th...

Volunteer interview, before there was a special counsel. clearly things escalated to where he felt the need to subpoena them. and i'm told that pence's team found out on tuesday that this was coming. >> so elliot, is he going to talk? what are the limitations. >> let me tell you what mike pence cannot do here. he cannot ignore the subpoena and hope it goes away like we saw a lot of people do with the january 6th subpoena. one, he can testify. he can go in front of the grand jury, get under oath and answer questions. two, he can continue negotiating. kaitlan reported there has been negotiation....

Justice department investigators think that could actually potentially help them, because it gets into the dynamic of he goes into the room and can answer some questions on january 6th because he talked about it in his book. >> he wasn't exactly forth come manage the book. he was sort of glossed over some things. >> he did talk about conversations where he said trump told him he was praying for him, things like that. i do think there is some gray area there. i don't know how they're going to navigate that. >> the legal term for that is waiver. the argument you would make as the prosecutors, he...

I'm told that pence found out on tuesday that this was coming. >> so, elliott, is he going to talk? what are the limitations? >> let me tell you first about what he cannot do. here he cannot just ignore the subpoena, hope it goes away like we saw a lot of people do on january six subpoena. here is what his options are. one, he can testify, go in front of the rancher, eco under oath, and answer questions. to, he can continue negotiating -- but sometimes, serving the subpoena as a way of expediting things, meaning them, to the next level or three he can't challenge this in court as an executive ...

Branch. but the doj is part of the executive branch. so that argument doesn't exist anymore. and because he's openly accused trump of having recklessly endangered not only him but his wife and daughter who were present on capitol hill that day, i think he's waived the executive privilege argument as well. i don't know how he could protect himself against a legitimately issued subpoena to testify in the criminal case. >> okay. you don't believe he can protect himself. as paula notes, it's possible the president's legal team can assert some sort of privilege claim here. likely to win on that arg...