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This handful of republican who is seem hell bent on getting everything they can out of us until we have got no more to give them. this is a survival mechanism. that's my theory. i believe it's going to work, but at some point we're going to see some demand made on the director of the fbi or on the department of justice that they simply can't comply with, whether it's a human life in danger, whether there's something that would be wholly inappropriate to turn over. we're going to see somebody saying no at some point. we've got to watch carefully how that plays out. >> let's bring this back to t...

Himself but he's also obstructing an investigation you could argue into russian meddling in our election which impacts our natiurity so if you're republican and you are deducing the politics of this, how do you end up on the si of the president? >> historically i don't think this is going to age that well. you also forgot another major news story because this is how this administration rolls, the new york attorney general and the trump foundation and criminal fraud using a charitable foundation. >> it's hard to squeeze it in. >> that is huge and we aren't even talking about it because there's ...

Political problems and so the problem gets worse and worse. government gets more demoralized, less able to orm ices for the country and we go down. it's an unfortunate fact that good nations sometimes go bad. it's thisth through history. the thing i'm struckwith, mike, is that it's on us. democracy is the system of government where if there's something wrong, citizens get a chance to fix it. we're gog to have a chance come november and it's really going to be a test of the united states as a country, of our voters, whether they can penetrate the fog. i mean this fog machine is going 24/7 in wa...

All he did was turn on the fog machine, and say next question, right, while throwing a few elbows at the "new york times." >> right. >> if you try to pars it in logical terms his argument would be something like the "new york times" is fake news so it's okafor me to lie to the "new york times." which is obviously ridiculous. >> let's go through it. >> there is that, obviously ridiculous. also, as we all know, when the president, or one of the middler of a investigation like this issues any statement, it is to all of us, not to cnn or the "new york times" you are making a public statement from ...

Matthews' language, giuliani is principally donald trump's fog machine. he's out here to distract, to delegitimize. i remember my son when he was young, he found that toy that he fixated on. donald trump has fixated on the pardon because it actually reflects, right, the way in which he conceives of himself as the president and how he might exercise power. so all of this is almost like the theater of the absurd. you could imagine samuel beckett staging this in some ways. as he says try, try, try again. fail, fail, fail again better. it seems this is absurd. giuliani is part of the circus and do...