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By trump and i do think that that is basically like what we saw in this documents investigation where the crime fraud exception was put in place by a judge and the judge said that the doj had met the threshold. so pence has you know he got some of this in his book, right? this won't all be a surprise, but i think that the prosecutors will be asking detailed questions under oath, assuming that this doesn't get appealed and that they don't succeed on appeal. i think that there is nobody else who can afford a view into trump's mindset. the way pence can and who can talk about the pressure campaig...

Saw in this documents investigation where the crime fraud exception was put in place by a judge and the judge said that the doj had met the threshold. so pence has you know , he got some of this in his book, right? this won't all be a surprise, but i think that the prosecutors will be asking detailed questions under oath, assuming that this doesn't get appealed and that they don't succeed on appeal. i think that there is nobody else who can afford a view into trump's mindset. the way pence can and who can talk about the pressure campaign? he was under there for much of that, right in. the real...

Information, and howell ruled on friday that he has to testify and he has to turn over any and all notes and documents related to that subject. presumably, if the reporting is correct, he is going to be saying and may have contemporaneous notes of it that he got that information from donald trump. it is a crime to lie to the department of justice. it is making a false statement. i have charged it in the past. and we've gotten convictions on that. it is also obstruction of justice. that is also a federal crime. so there's a reason this is, i think you can correctly say a bomb shell, you could e...

Commit a crime using your lawyer. that does not make something privileged, and so you would think donald trump could have looked at what happened with manafort, seen that the judge ordered the exact same thing and learned his lesson, apparently he didn't. >> what do you make to the reference to recordings? >> fascinating. so the reason -- i know a lot of people talked about did mr. corcoran make recordings, that wouldn't be, my understanding as a lawyer is that's not proper. you're not supposed to record people. those ethical prohibitions. the idea that mr. corcoran would have made these recor...

Don't know how much litigation is going on behind closed doors about the crime, fraud exception. >> that is correct, katie. a lawyer and recess everyone needs to hold their horses a bit. in terms of how excited we get around these data points, we really don't know the degree of information being sought, revealed, and the focus of the information. i do think that's a good sign that the jackson event that they were tear doing a thorough job with the strength of the investigation, but that is to be expected. ultimately, how much this all matters remains to be seen. we really don't know the substa...