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Johning us now to talk more about this, maggie haberman, senior politico reporter. thanks for coming in. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to talk about democrats in just a second. you have -- can we call it it the beginning of fallout in personnel terms? the i.t. guy, the head tech guy in charge of the website. they say he's retiring. but what are you hearing behind the scenes? is this the first domino to drop? >> i don't think you're actually going to see too many. their hope is they can contain this. they don't want to have a bunch of heads rolling. that becomes a terrible story going forw...

Took place and he was leaving in three weeks. he was already leaving. so that wasn't any loss that's correct wasn't any skin off of anyone's back. we need to hear from doug shulman and there needs to be more heads rolling. and people who are there at the irs. >> let me jump in and ask me this. this i think is important. we know that members of the senate, members of the house, democrats, they were asking for these groups to be targeted. they were requesting to get the added scrutiny, and it then happened. >> yeah. yeah. absolutely. there are a number of democrats who have letters back and fort...

And that is the enemy's list. and i suppose politicians do that. it is not a very productive thing, politics is addition, it is not very smart to do is that. >> any administration deliberately targeting people -- >> the irs, no, indeed, that is a totally different thing. once people get a sense that they have turned the government of the united states with all of those employees and all of those tax dollars against the people or some of the people, nobody likes it. the people that are not even targeted don't like it. >> i think it is outrageous, and i have no great truck for the tea party, but...

>> not the irs, no, indeed. that is a totally different thing. once you -- people get a sense they have turned the government of the united states with all those employees and all those tax dollars against the people or some of the people, nobody likes it. the people that aren't even targeted don't like it. >> i think it's outrageous and i've got no great -- for the tea party. very critical of them. i still think it's outrageous. >> it is. >> that they have done this. >> and it's also illegal. >> yeah. >> and anti democratic, and inexcusable. and it should be dealt with in a very, very firm wa...

That. >> any administration deliberately targeting people -- >> not the irs, no, indeed. that is a totally different thing. once you -- people get a sense they have turned the government of the united states with all those employees and all those tax dollars against the people or some of the people, nobody likes it. the people that aren't even targeted don't -- >> i think it's outrageous and i've got no great -- for the tea party. very critical of them. i still think it's outrageous. >> it is. >> that they have done this. >> and it's also illegal. >> yeah. >> and anti democratic, and inexcusab...