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i think you can expect some fairly big bombshells. >> let's bring you in here ron, you are not meant to be coy, i know you are not. a straight shooter. cipollone defended trump in the first impeachment hearing, the fact that he is from trump's inner circle, he was not like chomping at the bit to testify. he was not witness number one he is just coming in. how important is it that this is the first, this is the guy that is coming to testify now? how important is this to the overall committee's ability to make the case to the american electorite. >> i am not a lawyer but as a journalis...

subpoenas pat cipolline. the witness talked about him. every one has been talking about that. pat cipollone is the former president's white house counsel, a key witness to what was going on inside the white house the days before, the time during and after the attack on the united states capitol. we have been trying to get him to answer -- they have been trying i should say to get him to answer more questions after previously sitting behind closed doors in april. the committee has been saying it's trying to obtain evidence that cipollone is, quote, uniquely positioned to testify but h...

Reputational harm on others as well. charlie, there is the former chief of staff, mark meadows who was a respective conservative before trump. really, one effort images that have come out about him since at least cassidy hutchinson's testimony, him scrolling through text messages and unwilling, for whatever happen, to address trump. what is the future for him in politics? he had a long career in politics. is that done? >> i will never say he is done. he is from north carolina he represented a conservative district. he has been damaged by not doing enough to stop the president or to get the pre...

It was pat cipollone. >> hutchinson describes scenes of him scrolling on his screen as the capitol was being overrun. do you think that was a dereliction of his duty? >> yeah, absolutely. the lack of caring, the lack of regard it shows the depravity. they didn't care about the vote, the damage to our democracy, didn't care about the wealth and well-being of those police officers dead and wounded now. they didn't care about any of it, just their own power. and that's really what this is about. right, and this is about making sure we restore that and we make that wrong right. and that's why this...