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Cross-examination or a direct exa examination. i'd be insisting donald trump be the first witness. >> he could plead the fifth. but good luck to him if that is what he wants to do. i would put him on the stand and go through all the facts with him. and let the american public see this is the guy who says he is completely innocent, he has done nothing wrong. well, if he is so innocent, why isn't he clamoring to be the first witness at this trial and that is who the democrats should serve him with a subpoena and ask justice roberts to order that he show up in the senate well to give testimony on...

Truthfully, i think that he could tell you about all the negotiations with ukraine. it is not just a call. there is months' long of scheming that went on as well. and what you a he is so uncareful, he'd probably slip in other crimes that president trump has committed as well. >> and first of all, the tv show of donald trump -- we've heard him talk. and rudy giuliani, we've heard how he talks. testifying for donald trump? oh, my god, that would put the -- the forcing the glove on moment in the o.j. trial, it would put that to the back burner. i think they should take your advice. joe, my a wile...

House democrats may want to reconsider whether or not they refer the articles next week. what happens in the articles of impeachment is the last paragraph will say and the article is here by referred to the senate for trial. they could strike that paragraph, hold it and either wait for mcconnell and schumer to reach tom some agreement, some assurances that schumer feels that we can go into this knowing that we may have a fair trial or just hold it until the president commits another impeachable act. >> what do you think about that idea of not giving mitch mcconnell the opportunity to rig the j...

Trial and i think there would be a lot of pub llic support for that. if you do that we will call hunter biden, we will out the whistle-blower. i think those are empty threats. i don't think the nation would stand for that kind of circus so i do think the democrats should press hard to make this a real trial and remember if it isn't then i think what you said earlier making this president the o.j. simpson of presidents would be his fate. that is, he would have not only a red asterisk next to his name but he would become the first president who was impeached in his first term who fundamentally w...

Acquitted in a trial that the outcome is known, and that outcome wasn't even known, it was still a surprise verdict, but if donald trump goes into a trial at which mitch mcconnell has said don't worry, buddy, that is not acquittal. most people will look at him and go, yeah, but he did it. >> you have to keep in mind that there are a number of republicans who like the idea of foreign interference in our elections. they want to stay just where they are because they did so well in 2016. keep in mind donald trump only won the presidency by about 80,000 votes in three states -- >> 77,000. >> and pe...