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There's a simpler part. you have a liaison office that deals with the congress. all the president has to do before he says anything is ask them to go over the congress and say what is this guy's reputation? find enemies. will we have a problem before we go down the road. it wasn't hard. all he had to do is pick up the phone. >> that's the other thing. on the program last night my interview with marianne if the idea that the president was surprised to hear from williamson became contentious people on capitol hill that they when it came to her views of didn't know anything about this people ta...

Interview with marianne williamson became contentious when it came to her views of people taking antidepressant medication. you say feds say one in ten americans on antidepressants, not a good sign, not a time for any of us to be numbing pain. if you're on an antidepressant, you're not numbing your pain but trying to feel again, no? >> some people would argue that, some people not. the issue is the difference between normal human despair and if you're going through something like grief for instance. >> that's normal. you write eloquently about normal universal sadness. >> when people are takin...

Good message and i think i've never given that message. that's just never the way i've spoken and it is a complete mischaracterization of my commentary. what i've talked about is a normal spectrum of human despair, normal human despair, which traditionally was seen as the purview of spirituality and religion. that which gave people comfort and gave people hope and inspiration in their times of pain. and with the advent of modern psychotherapy, a lot of the baton sort of passed from religion and spirituality to modern psychotherapy which was an interesting transition. and then over the last few...

Numbing our pain. if you're on an antidepressant, you're not numbing your pain, you're actually trying to feel again, no? >> well, some people would argue that. some people not. but the issue here for me is the difference between normal human despair. and if you are going through something like grief, for instance -- >> right, that's -- you write very he wieloquently about univ sadness. do you acknowledge -- you have raised questions, though, about clinical depression in the past. i know in a podcast with russell brand, i think you called clinical depression such a scam. and then you backtrack...

Baton was passed again to psychopharmacology. and so a nuanced conversation was lost regarding the nature of human despair regarding the phenomenon of human despair. that's what i have spoken about. >> you have used the word numb many times and masked. >> yes. >> you said, in fact, feds say one in ten americans on anti-depressants. not a good sign. this is not a time in american history for any of us to be numbing our pain. if you're on an antidepressant, you're not numbing your pain, you're actually trying to feel again, no? >> well, some people would argue that. some people not. but the issu...