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Hospitalization is related to what we're calling an immunity wall, which is basically the large number of people who have been vaccinated in a place. that is a little hard to tease out. but i think what we're going to see in the united states, unfortunately, is we're going to see a reduction in hospitalizations compared to prior surges in places like new york and d.c. because of the large number of vaccinated and boosted people. but in parts of the united states, particularly places like the south and midwest, we are not going to see quite the same reduction in hospitalization because the immu...

Vaccination rate than the u.s., there is also a lot of zero prevalence, they're a lot of people have had covid, they were coming off of a huge delta wave in that country, so those combined form a patchwork of immunity wall, right? >> exactly. yes, for sure. >> doctor spencer, let me ask you we have spoken to you throughout this pandemic you worked all over the world in very intense situations of viral outbreak he, you were a doctor during the ebola crisis, you were in new york during the first wave, what is your perspective on this data, first for new york but then let's zoom out for the hospi...

Mechanism that is producing it. >> chris, it's good to be with you and also with craig, i think this is a very important point you are making, the severity of the illness is hard to gauge, but there is now data from three countries, scotland, inland, denmark it all looks favorable, as well as in south africa. we have lower severity which is partly from our immunity wall, but there are some hints of an intrinsic activity of the virus, it can infect long cells as well. there is a lot less loss of smell and taste, these are good things. so it may be a combination, it's largely disunity wall which...

How more mild or less severe it is. we know there's been deaths. there's been deaths in all those countries, including the u.s. now, from omicron and many hospitalizations. so it's really the unsettled question right now. we know why it would be less severe, because we have this immunity wall, the vaccinations and the boosters and the prior covid. and there's also some intrinsic evidence that are hints about this virus that would make it less severe. but still there are an untold number of people who will be very severely ill. >> and, doctor, why do you think it is that it's still a struggle t...

Using higher quality medical grade masks. we haven't been advocating third shots like we should. this is really a three-dose vaccine. and unless someone had j&j or prior covid. we also, of course, are -- have hit a wall in many respects with getting people -- more people vaccinated. with this delta variant, which is the main problem, so hypercontagious, we have to get 90% of people with immunity wall with the delta, by vaccination or recent confirmed prior covid. we're so far away from that. we're 30% point of the american population. so we had problems in getting the mandates through, even fo...