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Transcripts For MSNBC Alex Wagner Tonight 20240614



they may not even have to go that far. i think the lesson is that you can terrorize people into not doing anything just by having a law and having the threat out there that somebody could be criminally prosecuted for doing something. the comstock act, this is not a hypothetical. there are lots of folks in right-wing circles writing about and talking about this. lisa rubin, thank you. thank you. that is all in on this thursday night. alex wagner starts now. good evening. there are women already terrified making choices about bodily economy. certainly. fear at all levels of american society. thank you, my friend. today donald trump made his first visit to capitol hill. the first time since his followers ransacked the capital on january 6. to understand why trump chose to come back now after more than three years away, you don t have to look as far back as the insurrection. you just have to remember what trump has been asking congress to do since his criminal conviction two weeks ago. the day after trump was convicted of 34 felony counts in his new york hush money case, eight republican senators vowed to oppose all biden nominees and all democratic legislation as retribution. today six republican senators led by j.d. vance put the oppose all biden nominees part of that into writing. senators explained they would block nominees including anyone who suggested the trump prosecutions were reasonable. anyone who opposed trump s guilt. anyone who supported organizations that celebrated the indictment of donald trump and anyone who supported alvin bragg or supported lawfare or censorship in other ways. which is just big enough to include basically anyone president biden nominated. these republican senators say their blockade will last until election day and in practical terms that means the u.s. government will not be able to appoint representatives to things like the u.n. general assembly or the world health organization or even the not particularly political seeming places like the civil aviation organization and public buildings reform board. what exactly do those organizations have to do with prosecuting donald trump? nothing. this is not about policy, it is about retribution. you might remember last year senator tommy tuberville pulled a similar stunt. tuberville became the first senator in history to do a long- term blockade of u.s. military appointments. senator tuberville kept more than 400 qualified servicemembers, 400, from being appointed or promoted for 10 months. all because of a department of defense policy that had nothing to do with those servicemembers. the blockade was such a blatant misuse of power. it was not just democrats who were appalled. there were some of his fellow republican senators no matter if you believe it or not senator tuberville, this is doing great damage to our military. this power is extraordinary that we are given as individual senators, but it is incumbent to use it in a reasonable way. everybody uses holds. the key is you put a hold on someone who typically has some kind of control over the issue you are trying to fix. there is not one senator in here who could not find a reason to object to an administration policy. in the military. none of us. we could all find something. i hope we don t do this routine. i just hope we don t do this routinely. does two times count as a routine? if so this makes it a routine and this time it is not even about the policy disagreement, however tangential. it is so republicans can protest donald trump being found guilty by a jury of his peers. today we also saw 29 republican senators sign onto this letter disparaging the rule of law and saying trump s conviction was nothing short of the evisceration of the american judicial process. so it is safe to say that from now to november the u.s. senate is effectively going to be at a standstill and unable to govern, not because of policy disagreements, but so republicans can perform an act of retribution on donald trump s behalf. as for the house where republicans hold a majority, well, things are looking worse. politico is out with new reporting saying that in the days after trump s conviction trump made a f bomb filled call to speaker johnson. trump s message, we have to overturn this. now a few weeks after that call it looks like speaker johnson s mission is not just to grind the government to a halt like his republican colleagues in the senate. it is to use the power of the government to make trump s criminal concerns go away. by way of an example yesterday, house republican leaders spent the day whipping votes for a bill that would allow presidents charged at the state level to move those cases to federal court. let me check my notes. how many presidents have been criminally charged at the state level again? oh, only one. what an interesting use of congressional power. politico also reports the speaker johnson is in talks with jim jordan about using the appropriations process to target special counsel jack smith and de-fund his investigation. neither of those have the votes to pass yet, but that is the kind of stuff that republicans in congress are working on right now, which helps put into context why donald trump went back to capitol hill today. it was not for any legitimate legislative concern. it was for what republican congressman matt gaetz called a pep rally for president trump. a pep rally complete with an early birthday party for donald trump himself. 11 something to do with this room. joining me now is the senior editor at slate two covers the courts and philip, columnist for the washington post. the birthday cake, pardon the culinary metaphor, but it really is the icing on the cake of fealty if that is the metaphor. are you surprised that the pledges of allegiance as they are are so explicit, so undisguised on capitol hill? i am not surprised. this is something we have seen for years. watching that package, the thing that struck me as republicans are a little bit like parents on an airplane with a crying child. they have this source of frustration and everyone is sick of it. they are stuck and have got to figure out how to calm this kid down. the kid is donald trump and he is mad about being convicted. don t worry, i will talk to the supreme court. they are doing everything to keep him happy, keep him quiet, keep him on their side and most importantly keep him from lashing out against them. that is what we see with this. they are all trying to keep him happy, keep him quiet and get through this. they are terrified of him and they adore him. he is the center of their universe and they can t control him at all. i do wonder as you see the machinations of the conference and republicans in the senate openly trying to undermine the rule of law, does it not throughout the notion of the justice system in america as we watch the legislative branch to this work? i think that is a feature, not a bug. i think we are seeing a systematic attack on the rule of law. i think even if we had not had the conviction in the new york trial, we have seen a long- standing set of attacks on judges, on juries, on, you know, prosecutors. on witnesses. i think the whole zeitgeist is, and it is not a surprise. this is a classic authoritarian play. just to foment doubt in institutions. if you foment enough doubt people start looking longingly at the strongman who will save them when institutions crumble. so no part of this is new or unfamiliar. i think what is interesting is seeing a lot of republicans who might have, at one point felt about donald trump, but stood fast on the principle that judges and juries and statutes and the concentration actually enforce some meaning. the degree to which they abandoned that and see no value in that i think is the part that is new and chilling. to that point, the idea that they will withhold these nominations across the government, right? the tuberville blockade wasn t great politics and yet they survived it and they are replicating it. on a different level it is not the u.s. military and certainly the w.h.o. and u.n. are not favorites of the republican party, but nevertheless they are stymieing the work and they think it is good politics? they do think it is good politics from the standpoint that the political focus at this point is retribution against joe biden and that is what they are focused on. mitch mcconnell doesn t wake up in the morning and say that is what he wants to do, but he understands. it is also mitch mcconnell in 2016, holding a supreme court seat. we have also seen this pattern in the past and it is very anti- institutional, but fundamentally about sending a message to the american public that d.c. does not do what it is supposed to do and we need to get trump in there. to make us do our work again. right. that is the singular focus from now to election day. i do think, you know, republicans are betting that the electorate won t punish them for this and that the broader american electorate is not tuned into this. this is part of the swamp, part of the dysfunction of the capital and you make an important point in one of your pieces this week about normalcy bias. americans have a normalcy bias. it leads them to believe everyone who tells them that everything is awesome. even as that system is hanging together by way of dental floss. we are talking about a system of justice, but i think it has extended to the dysfunctional government. because it still exists, because there is still a congress that occasionally passes laws, people can deride functionality, but they don t think democracy is in danger of falling apart in the same way they hold trumps criminal conviction as an example. a jury of peers found him guilty. it all works. things are not normal right now. things are very abnormal and i wonder if you can talk a little bit more about your level of panic in this moment. i try not to use the word panic because it makes my parents super scared, but i guess i would say think about where we were in 2016. what was deemed disqualifying in that race and think about the fact that in the intervening time we have civil jury s finding trump guilty of being a sexual abuser. we have 34 felony convictions. we have january 6. we have donald trump, who ran in 2016. we forget in the fog of memory, but as a family man, as a businessman who was going to drain the swamp. now just running as a straight up autocrat. he is running under the banner of violence, of suppression of rights, of suppression of speech. of deporting immigrants. this is really scary, what has happened, and it seems people are almost less dialed up now than they were in 2016 when they were like that access hollywood tape sounds bad. now every single day you get this drumbeat of what i think is really distressing. you know, saying kind of the quiet part loud about wanting to create an authoritarian state and i think we normalized it because we have to get to cvs to fill our prescriptions and we are raising our kids and we are tired. i think this allows us to wait until some adult says break the glass. i think what we have metabolized is normal is deeply frightening. you write about the way in which republicans were very incensed about the trump conviction. democrats were not about hunter biden s conviction and as a result republicans are up in arms and democrats are largely accepting of the hunter biden conviction. i find a number that is particularly staggering around all of this, is the number of people who acknowledge that the donald trump conviction is the right call. it is not moving them at all in their support for trump. this is new monmouth pulling out today. do you agree or disagree with the verdict finding trump guilty? 47% agree. 34% disagree. then you look at the numbers of people who are definitely or probably supporting each candidate. biden, 43. trump, 44. numbers are not moving even in the face of saying this conviction was the right thing. what does this tell you? it tells me two things. first we should expect this from the standpoint that even before the verdict a fifth of trump supporters said they thought he already committed a crime. we will vote for him anyway. the second thing is that donald trump did an effective job of inoculating his base against this. it is not just last year. it is in 2016. as soon as the russian investigation came to public consciousness he started saying it is a hoax and that pattern is continuing. it really helped his base. once they bought in on that that was it. this indictment, they look at it and they are like, that is exactly what he said. at some point rational people step back and are like it is hard to believe that they came up with all of these different crimes. they ve been busy. they are like they are allowed to get him. calling it an inoculation is right. ironic. because we had breaking news in the vein of the abnormal tonight, i want to get your thoughts. clarence thomas, who is a key part of the system of justice and rule of law, found to have three additional undisclosed trips that he took from his billionaire a friend harlan crow. these were trips he did not disclose. this is on top of the hundreds of thousands if not millions of gifts he has taken thus far and only lately come clean about. what does this tell you about the danger we are in in terms of the high court and the lesson it sends to lower courts? i think i would put this under the bucket that philip has been talking about. law is for suckers. you may have disclosure statutes. you may have ethics rules. you may have all sorts of obligations. this is not a surprise. and then coming out in drips. last week we had a partial disclosure of some of the trips that were paid for. but not all of them and here are three more trips that were never disclosed. so i think this is kind of part of the larger trump theory which is that we have leaders who do not have to answer to the rule of law and when the little guy fails to get his death penalty paperwork right, he goes to the death chamber. when clarence thomas again and again, time after time after time, does not file disclosures or amends disclosures partially, that s okay because the law is for the little guy. i find it part of this sort of very systemic devaluation of the rules that everyone is supposed to abide by and it is a very systemic effort i think to normalize the notion that some people are too cool and important to follow the rules. everyone is supposed to abide by the law. thank you both for your time and thoughts tonight. really appreciate it. we have much more ahead tonight. do you have any summer travel plans? today former president donald trump singled out one, quote, horrible american city he might recommend skipping. first the supreme court upheld access to the drug used in most abortions for now, but it does not mean the fight is over by a long shot. we will talk with nancy from the center for reproductive rights, next. rights, next. me platinum plus gives you the highest standard of clean, even in your machine. clean enough for you? yeah! scrape. load. done. cascade platinum plus. sandals jamaica sale is now on! with rates from $199 per person per night. visit sandals.com or call 1-800-sandals here s to getting better with age. here s to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. .without the stuff you don t. so, here s to now. boost. her uncle s unhappy. i m sensing an underlying issue.. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. in a unanimous decision today, the united states supreme court maintained access to the primary pill used in most abortions, mifepristone. the court rejected a bid to restrict access to that drug on procedural grounds. justice kavanaugh claimed the plaintiffs, a collection of antiabortion doctors and dentists and unlicensed retirees calling themselves the alliance for hippocratic medicine, justice kavanaugh said they had no legal standing to challenge the drug s approval. this case is dead, but the group of doctors say they are not done. the court said the clients don t have standing in this case. we are grateful the case will continue with three states working to hold the fda accountable for its reckless actions. today republican attorney generals in missouri, idaho and kansas are continuing to challenge access to mifepristone using the same legal argument in the case the court rejected today. this time they are framing access as an infringement on states rights. even if this challenge fails in federal court, there are still restrictions at the state level. last month in louisiana where abortion is already banned, it became the first state to classify both drugs used for medication abortion as controlled, date dangerous substances. effectively shutting down access to these pills through the mail. joining me now is nancy northup, president for the center for reproductive rights. i would first like your general reaction. was it one of optimism, anxiety, pessimism? how did you see it? well, it was huge relief because if the supreme court had upheld the ruling from the fifth circuit, then availability of medication abortion by telemedicine, receiving it by mail, things that made it much easier for people to get access to medication abortion if they do not live near a clinic, if they do not take time off, could have been taken away. so relief, but frankly also anger because we should not have been here to begin with. you can tell that nine of these justices agreed with each other. this case had no merit in the law and no merit in fact. so while i am breathing a sigh of relief today, i am really concerned. we know and you just showed us, you just heard, the campaign against medication abortion by those who are opposed to abortion is far from over. yeah and it seems very clear that the adf, the legal organization that offended these doctors, is out there, ready for the next wave of this which involves the states. the attorney general of kansas said today that states have the standings that the doctors in this case did not. how concerned are you about that legal theory? well i am concerned about it because obviously we have lower court justice who even agreed to this case that the supreme court said had no merit and threw it out. but it does not have merit. you can t go into court because you disagree with the ruling based on science by the fda. let s be clear. why are they going after medication abortion? because it is the method of choice by almost two thirds of women who have abortion in the united states today, choosing medication abortion. they want to cut that off. they want to cut it off in states where abortion is illegal, in states like illinois and new york and california and beyond. we need to be concerned because trying to keep coming in with the junk science as they did in this case and really baseless claims, they will keep on going. they can t ban medication abortion, which obviously is the end goal. there is a non-core strategy which is for states to independently take it upon themselves as louisiana did to say this should be a controlled substance. we are not going to use a here. is that the most pernicious strategy? is that the one you are most concerned about or do you think the whole ballgame of banning it nationally is where they will focus their firepower? they are going to do both and let s also remember that abortion is already banned in louisiana. so where we are today is the same status quo which is unacceptable and harmful. 14 states have banned abortion with really severe criminal penalties and for people in those states, you know, that status quo is completely unacceptable. in the meantime, nancy, as this is debated in the courts and so forth, there is a reality for people seeking bodily autonomy and healthcare across this country. the new york times has a staggering map of the number of people traveling across state lines to seek abortion care. 171,000 people traveled for abortions last year, which was more than double the amount in 2019. what is the picture you can paint for us about the reality of abortion care and reproductive health care in the united states right now? it is completely unacceptable that in 2024, four people in 14 states, that they have to travel out of state to get care they should be able to get in- state. we were in congress yesterday. there was a hearing in the subcommittee of the judiciary on of course travel out of state and one of our clients in texas talked about how because she was denied a medically necessary abortion in texas, what would have taken 15 minutes and turned around her health in 15 minutes, she had to spend three days and thousands of dollars going to the state of colorado. that is the reality for so many women and not everybody can leave their state. they don t have the means or the child care or the time off from work. it is really a healthcare crisis happening in the country right now. a completely self afflicted crisis. nancy northup from the center of reproductive rights, it is great to have your perspective. thanks for your time tonight. thank you. survivors of the sandy hook massacre reached a major milestone this weekend tomorrow could bring another measure of justice. first, donald trump s new election strategy to compete against joe biden and the rustbelt. insult the wisconsin city hosting the republican national convention. we have more on that, coming up next. we re trying to save the planet with nuggets. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my metastatic breast cancer treatment. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. long live life and long live you. ask your doctor about kisqali today. they say we should stop eating so much meat. and long live you. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. are your gutters clogged? cleaning them can be dangerous, mucky, yuck. get leaffilter. it s as easy as one, two, three. call or click today. get your free gutter inspection on your schedule and get leaffilter installed in as little as a few hours. you ll never have to clean out your gutters again, guaranteed. get leaf filter today. call 833 leaffilter or go to leaffilter.com as easy as 1, 2, 3 donald trump wants to talk about things that he thinks are horrible, but all of us lived through his presidency, so right back at you, buddy. to insult the state hosting your convention is kind of bizarre. kind of unhinged in a way. that was mayor johnson responding to donald trump s comments made reportedly behind closed doors where trump called the city of milwaukee horrible. milwaukee of course is the city where in a little over a month donald trump will officially become the republican presidential nominee at the rnc. meanwhile first lady joe biden was in green bay today kicking off a healthcare initiative. nbc news found since the launch of the reelection campaign in the fall, the team has made 10 trips to wisconsin and pennsylvania. in addition to a dozen visits to the state of michigan. there is a logic to this. nbc news notes that biden s most likely path to victory lies in pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, and a single electoral vote from an omaha base to district. joining me now is founder and executive director of a more perfect union and manager of bernie sanders campaign. thank you for being here. obviously this white house is thinking about all 50 states, but the campaign is increasingly looking at a specific reality for biden s reelection. as onlookers to all of this, should we be looking at those three states as the prism through which we understand everything else joe biden does from now to november? it is not the end-all, be- all, but it is critical to maintain the presidency. when you look at wisconsin, i appreciate donald trump trying to dig a hole and keep digging, but you and i know what he is trying to do which is to set up a rural and urban divide. that is a state that he won in 2016. flashforward and biden wins with 20,000 votes. what happened in those four years? 300,000 more people voted in the state of wisconsin and that help to deliver a margin for biden. for those playing along at home, what are you expecting in 2024 and if it is closer to 2020, biden is in a great place. closer to 2016 and trump is in a better place. it is generating enthusiasm for the states to win. what you think about his actions and priorities in terms of what he talks about tailored to those states? what effect do you think that will have on the man in the coming months? will we see a focus on certain issues over others? geography matters. if you think of michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, what defines them? these are states that you know well that are factory towns that of lost jobs. due to manufacturing that has moved away from the united states. these are towns that are proud and built trades and apprenticeships. cars and parts supplies and they made crayons and all kinds of things. all kinds of stuff that we like and we saw those jobs move abroad. here comes joe biden saying i ve got a different plan. i ve got a plot that says we will make it in america. we will invest in industrial policymaking to bring jobs back. the priority is not just getting it cheap, to get equality and good and made in the united states. in 2016 and 2000 17 2017, everything is going terribly. here is joe biden doing it and now the politics as to translate in the states where we make that choice. you can see the way donald trump is campaigning. he does not have the same ability to go to these towns and argue that somehow he will do something to rebuild these areas when joe biden has come along to start to do it. the goal is to educate people about the fact that this choice has been made and do we stay on the track that joe biden is offering? do you feel there is tension within some of the states and i will pick pennsylvania because you have a more urban and suburban electorate clustered on philadelphia that he has to keep on his ledger and perhaps even expand his support and he also has allegheny county and the rustbelt part of the state which is much more of the scranton joe persona. is that a delicate balance? those are very different voters, different levels of income, different levels of information and education. how do you see his ability to strike a balance between the two? i tend to believe, alex, that i think joe biden does it well. the persuasion audience, the people who have not yet made up their mind about either candidate, the ones who are concerned about joe biden here and maybe donald trump there, those are working-class people who are often defined by not having a college degree, holding down a job, making under $100,000 a year. that to me is where you have to be laser focused and to my mind the argument they have not heard and need to hear over the next few months as you have a billionaire and ceo class. we are speaking on a day when donald trump went to the business roundtable to tell them you will get tax cuts for the rich. i will come back and you will be so happy. they have to know that that is the choice. as you mentioned, scranton joe, who has been taking on a billionaire class. trying to un-rigged the economy. fighting junk fees. going after uncompetitive mergers. things that speak to your pocketbook and trying to make your life better. here is a guy promising every day that i ve got the ceos backs. i will deliver tax cuts. that i think will be decisive and if you hone in on that working-class audience i do think they are the most important of all of the audiences we need to persuade. you are being generous and suggesting donald trump had a strategy by insulting the city of milwaukee, calling it horrible reportedly. mike johnson i think was on another cable news network saying he did not hear trump say that. i think other republicans don t think that is a great strategy, if it is a strategy. you know, is alex, i will say i blame myself for this. i listen to every donald trump speech and and everyone he tells you about the decline of american cities. he will go to san francisco, new york and wherever he is. he will pick a place nearby. everything is terrible. it is no slip of the tongue. this is intentional and by design. he is realizing the politics might not play exactly as i wanted it to because i will be going there shortly to court those votes. but this is what he believes. this is the american carnage theory. he believes in decline and everything is terrible. well, maybe he forgot that actually the rnc was in milwaukee, which is entirely possible. in the strange brain of donald trump. thank you as always for your wisdom and enthusiasm. it is great to see you. thank you, alex. coming up, today was the deadline for donald trump to file motions in his hush money trial ahead of sentencing next month. what did we hear from the former president and his legal team? 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or what if they were my significant other or what if they were able to walk the stage with me? who would i still be friends with now? seeing those children enter adulthood as a reminder of where this nation is 11 years later. according to the gun violence archive, america experienced more than 4800 past mass shootings in the past decade. in 2022 the nation mourned the death of another 19 elementary school students. another american community that will now be remembered as the site of a horrific tragedy. in the wake of that shooting president biden past the first gun reform in generations, but republicans have resisted the continued calls to ban the very assault rifles used at sandy hook and robb elementary. for years the family hook the sandy hook family were re- victimized by alex jones, who said that the shooting was faked. the families sued for defamation and eventually they won. tomorrow the judge overseeing that case is expected to move forward on liquidating alex joneses assets to help pay down the $1.5 billion jones owes those sandy hook families, just days after their children would have graduated high school. over the past few years there has been no shortage of discourse about how the next generation of kids will experience the transition into adulthood. could kids have a normal graduation during covid? 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[ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. everybody say there s no crime. and there s no evidence whatsoever connecting trump with any criminal wrongdoing. there is an insufficient amount of evidence, no crime has been shown. bragg evidence is inadequate. there s no evidence. there is no evidence and there s no crime. there s no crime. throughout donald trump s criminal time in new york, the former president citing legal experts arguing there was no evidence to convict him. a jury that found him guilty of 34 felonies disagreed but under new york state law, trump has one more chance to prove there was no real evidence of a crime by arguing that the judge should set aside the jury s and today is the deadline for to file that motion. joining me now is kristi greenberg former prosecutor. by my clock which is fairly accurate, it s 9:55, there are two hours left for them to file this. this is their chance to you know, basically this is a last chance that they have to make their legal arguments before they proceed to an appeal so they will be filing a full some motion. what is that, like everything and the kitchen sink? we are going to see a lot of the same recycled arguments that we saw before, just that you heard, that there s no crime here, you can t use state laws to deal with federal election crimes, you can t, the judge is biased, the prosecutors are vindictive and said you re going to take a lot of those arguments and you re going to cite the trial record but the problem is the trial record doesn t support the argument. they will point to a number of places where the judge ruled against them or reprimanded them, but there are also plenty of examples where the judge ruled in their favor and actually kept out evidence like playing the access hollywood tape, like hearing about sexual allegations against trump, you know, after that access hollywood tape, none of that came into the trial and so, there are any number of evidentiary rulings, things that went in his favor so this judge was fair, i think their attempt to use the trial record to regurgitate a number of these arguments is really not going to work. so is there a downside to doing this, you know, do you further erode confidence in your argument, if anything you are adding to the record, right, this is a judge who has already told trump s lead counsel that he has lost all credibility with the court and that was before the trial even started. there was, we got new information today on the gag order, on monday i believe trump legal team introduced a new motion for the judge to lift his gag order. the reasoning in part being that trump would like to be able to speak freely presumably about the judges, witnesses and prosecution during the debate. you think judge merchan moves at all on this? i do, and he is moving quickly and more quickly it seems from the papers that trump filed, which tells me he actually is looking seriously at this. so i think, there are three categories as you mentioned, and there s one category where i think the judge is going to take a close look at it and that is the statement that trump can make about witnesses. now we have seen the appearances from stormy daniels, and michael cohen, where they are talking about the case, talking about the election, talking about trump going to jail post verdict. so i think there is some merit to trump s argument that he should get to respond to those kind of attacks and i think the prosecutor, they seem to just that they would make some amendments to allow for that. that s the one category where i can see some shift but trump s motion says really nothing about why he should get to now attack the jurors, after the verdict or why he should now get to attack the judge s daughter, so if anything, what we ve seen from nbc news reporting, brian riley talking about the threats on jurors, people trying to identify who they are, trying to threatened with violence and now we are leaning toward sentencing, if any of that is revealed and he keeps ramping up these attacks, i mean, that is only going to intensify, so the need to protect these jurors and protect the court staff and the court staff and their families has not gone away. this case is still pending. from the state of the presidential debate that a lot of people are tuning into, that is not keep anybody any safer. i appreciate it. that s our show for tonight, and a reminder, you can listen to every single episode of alex wagner tonight as a podcast for free, scan the qr code on your screen or search for alex wagner tonight wherever you got your pad cat podcast. nancy pelosi is going to be our guest tonight. i

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Transcripts For MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes 20240614



plants and meatpacking plants. these aren t the most powerful people and where do they turn? you have a right-wing house of representatives and a very right-wing supreme court. exactly and i think this is why so many people feel powerless and ironically some are feeling so powerless that they turn to somebody who looks like a strong man. wright, with a golden toilet. who was actually at this moment giving big tax breaks and promising more tax breaks to the biggest corporations. people need to know that the most important thing to remember is the massive trump tax cut will expire next year. he is not for the regular person. robert reich, thank you so much. that is tonight s reidout . all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in a hero s welcome on capitol hill for the architect of the insurrection. we are 100% unified behind his candidacy. a lot of support. the best speech i ve ever heard. we are incredibly unified in working with president trump to get him elected. tonight, how congressional republicans became accomplices to the criminal ex-president. this is an outstanding group of people. i m with them 1000%. they are with me 1000%. as trump pressures the speaker of the house to overturn his felony conviction. then, new reporting on undisclosed luxury gifts to clarence thomas. and why today s supreme court ruling on abortion pills is just the beginning of the battle, when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. a lot has happened on capitol hill since the last time donald trump was there. there was the deadly insurrection he incited. there was the biden inauguration he skipped. there was the record-setting second impeachment he faced and there was a time in the immediate aftermath of all of that, late january, february, march, it seemed he may never be welcome back. but we know how that turned out. today the former president and his 34 felony convictions tracked to capitol hill at the invitation of house and senate republicans where he was received like a different dawn. a crime don. seeking not supporters but accomplices and co-conspirators. they are using us as a bad example of democracy and they are getting away with murder and we are not going to let it happen. you are all elected or you are going to be elected again and reelected. i m with everyone of you and i will be with you always. this is an outstanding group of people. i m with them 1000%. we agree just about everything and if there isn t we work it out. the term kiss the ring has been used so often with trumpet has virtually lost all meaning, but it really was on display in washington today. everything about this appearance was meant to convey the idea of republican party unity and they all performed it strenuously. that unity essentially remaking the party of lincoln into a mafia type operation with him at the top. a man convicted in a conspiracy to pay off former paramore is because he feared their stories would complicate his campaign. a man found liable for sexual assault of exactly the kind he brags about. a man who surrounds himself with lackeys who have been convicted or charged of serious crimes. steve bannon, michael flynn. trump has pardoned or commuted the sentences of many of those men. of course they never snitched. because trump envisions interactions with people in these sort of organized crime transaction terms. you do for me and if i am in a good mood and i am happy with your performance, you will get a cut. the republican party signed up to be part of this. that was on display today with discussions behind closed doors. as sources told reporter jake sherman, trump singled out house republicans who voted to impeach him saying that out of the 10 that impeached only one is left. sherman pointed out that was wrong, there are actually two left, but this was trump basically doing his impression of al capone in the untouchables, pointing out all the people in his gang that flipped on him. a sort of snitches get stitches, stay on my good side message to the foot soldiers. if you think that pressure does not work, look at the outgoing majority leader mitch mcconnell. remember what he said about trump in the aftermath of the insurrection? there is no question, none, the president trump is practically and morally responsible for promoting the events of the day. no question about it. this was an intensifying crescendo of conspiracy theories orchestrated by an outgoing president who seemed determined to either overturn the voters decision or else torch our institutions on the way out. and yet here was mcconnell today. the old man, supplicant, submissive, bending over to kiss the ring. getting a breezy endorsement of trump s capitol hill pilgrimage. reporter: senator how was it seeing the former president? we had a good meeting. we shook hands a few times. he took questions from the audience and it was an entirely positive session. great work, mitch. despite all that plenty of those lawmakers were feckless enough to drip out details of trump s backroom talk to sherman and other reporters because you can never underestimate just how cowardly they are. for instance when trump told republicans today that milwaukee, where we are having our convention, is a horrible city. another source told reporters trump was rambling to the crowd. said it was like, and i quote, talking to her drunk uncle at the family reunion. of course in public those sources will get in line and kiss the ring and give the don whatever he wants. maybe you think this is all being too literal. hyperbolic with the metaphors. crime bosses. surely he does not embrace actual criminal gangs and racketeering and violence as a campaign feature. but this is now part of his campaign. listen closely to this because i still can t get over this. it flew almost completely beneath the radar on the mainstream media. i will include us with this, with the exception of the associated press and a few others. but it was on display at his campaign rally last month in the bronx when he shared the stage with a few supportive guests. where is where is he? come on up, fellas. always going to whisper your accomplishments and shout your failures. trump will shout to the winds for all of us. make america great again. okay so trump is doing a rally in the bronx. to trump those rappers are powerful allies. they are also criminal defendants in a sweeping gang case where prosecutors say they gave material support to a gang during a violent street war with another gang. brooklyn district attorney gonzalez says gang members used more than 30 guns to threaten or eliminate their rivals. in total gonzalez says there was one murder, for attempted murders and 12 nonfatal shootings. what we allege and learned during the course of this investigation was that he used a lot of the money that he earned to help facilitate further gang activity. he encouraged gang members to participate in violent crimes. sheff g, who is the rapper on stage with donald trump that he invited up there. prosecutors allege that he threw a party to celebrate a drive-by shooting in october, 2020, in which one alleged gang member was killed and five others were injured. murder. again, alleged. innocent until proven guilty in our system, but did you hear all of that? imagine what the new york post would have done with this headline if those gentlemen had shown up at a rally for aoc or if president joe biden introduced to them introduced them on stage. but the fact of the matter is that conservatives have a criminal as their preferred nominee and he is embracing a criminal model for the enterprise that is now the republican party. michelle goldberg is an opinion columnist for the new york times. tara, let me start with that. those two individuals on that stage. again, i can t believe it happened and these are not, you know, there are all kinds of ways people have been accused of crime. the system can be unfair, but they are accused of being part of a gang that has killed and shocked and maimed people and they are on stage with donald trump and i don t think it is an accident because i think this is kind of the vibe of the campaign. yeah, i talked about this right after the rally, i think on this network, as a matter of fact. pointing out how despicable this was and how this is seemingly okay now in the law and order republican party. it is such an affront to so many things and it is an insult to the american people that we are supposed to sit here and think this is normal. donald trump is a convicted felon. republicans are welcoming him to capitol hill with a hero s welcome. back to the scene of the crime where mitch mcconnell calls him practically responsible for an insurrection. pal around with accused murderers. this is all normal. it s just fine. it s not. it s not. he gets very frustrating sometimes when there seems to be a moral equivalence made between trump and biden and the way the campaigns are covered. like donald trump did what he did today. he is having these rallies where he is going on random rants about sharks and boats and electrocution. he is palling around on stage with guys who are also alleged criminals. meanwhile president biden is overseas representing the united states with honor and dignity of the g-7 and just entered a security deal with ukraine trying to maintain democracy in europe. there is no moral equivalence. your point about how this slipped under the radar and seems par for the course for donald trump, unfortunately this is who he is. he thinks this is okay and by the way for any black folks who think donald trump is on your side, this is what he thinks of you. black people will like me because i hang around with criminals and they were flashy chains and gold sneakers. it is such an affront, honestly, but this is who donald trump is. michelle, one of the thing that happens and again i use the mafia metaphor, because the unity is so intense. of course behind-the-scenes you have like talking to your drunk uncle. he was rambling. everyone goes and tells reporters and there is this distance. the unbelievable applause and then everyone going to tell the reporter that he was really nuts behind closed doors. right, it kind of brings back memories of 2016 to 2020, where you constantly had republicans in these really degrading displays of fealty and then they would go and try to distance themselves from it when no one was looking. maybe because they think it is all a game and we see how far it goes over and over again. i think after the mafia element, it is not just these two rappers. the trim campaign is leaning hard into mafia metaphors. you have seen the godfather t- shirts and merchandise with godfather iconography. donald trump has compared himself favorably to al capone. recently breitbart ran an interview with peter navarro, former trump official and probably future trump official if trump is reelected. currently in prison in miami. he gave this jailhouse interview boasting about how he gets treated really well because the guards and the inmates love donald trump. sort of how a made demand would be treated if he goes to prison and is still able to slice the garlic really thin. i think what is important is it is not just hypocrisy. not just a defiance of law and order. it is a different model of governance that a lot of republicans have embraced. a hierarchy based on personal relationships that they see as an alternative to technocratic liberalism. yes, mafia state as an aspirational model. and then i never know what s worse, like the people who are pretending or the people who are true believers. i think i know which category marjorie taylor greene is, but let me just play her reaction to seeing donald trump today. i really found his speech to be one of my favorite speeches. he came in, talked to the conference. he was very honest. he was funny. he was joking around constantly with everyone. he was really sweet to me. he said to speaker johnson, okay, you ve got one more seat. you need to be tougher. i was sitting back a little ways. he saw me and he was like hello. he is always so sweet and recognizes me and said are you being nice? he was joking and said are you being nice to speaker johnson? he said okay, be nice to him and i nodded my head. the thing about this is, yes, there is always a duality here. he knows what he is doing and the transactional politics are real and they have all sort of bought into it. it is successful because they are willing to get on board for what it will mean for them. yes of course and to answer your question who is worse, the true believers or the enablers, it is the enablers 100%. the true believers, you can excuse it away that they are so far into it that it is not rational for them. the enablers are the ones who know better and are in a position to say no or to say stop, when no one else will. which is what conservatives were supposed to be doing according to bill buckley, the godfather of modern conservative history. they did not do that. they made a decision that this would be a transactional, politically expedient decision to suck up to donald trump who is a direct and immediate existential threat to our democracy. he wants a club talker see and they are okay with that as long as they get their piece of the pie, but no one is safe under donald trump. he will come for them, too. then we as a country and a democracy have to pay the price. that is why he has to be stopped. go ask mike pence who narrowly avoided correct. getting grabbed by a mob calling for him to be hanged. this is j.d. vance, speaking of people auditioning, to be the next person who may be facing that situation. no real republican with any credibility in the party is still blaming trump for january 6. i think it is a good thing. the republican party is in a good place. i think today was kind of like the button on the january 6 was bad era of the republican party. to whatever extent it was there, today was the definitive marking of the end. right and it has been coming for a while. this is obviously a candidate running extensively on january 6 rioters were heroes and warriors and i m going to pardon the mall. the party has embraced him and embraced that message. j.d. vance is right. there are not very many republicans, if any, who have credibility in their party who will say what mitch mcconnell said after january 6 and what i think most of them know in their hearts to be true. michelle goldberg, tara setmayer, thank you both. when you are the republican pic for president and you want to overturn your conviction for multiple felonies, who do you call? the plea he made to the speaker of the house, next. se, next. clean white socks? it can with tide. do i need to pretreat guacamole? not with tide. this is chocolate, right? just use. tide. yeah. no matter who s doing it, on what cycle, or in what temperature, tide works. so i can focus on all the other questions. do crabs have eyebrows? ahh. for all of life s laundry questions. it s got to be tide. katie! i knew i d find you here. i know, it s wild. i m you from the future! anyway our doctor figured it out. all that constipation with belly pain that keeps coming back, it s ibs-c. she said linzess could help you get ahead of it. whatta you say? yess! get ahead of your ibs-c with linzess. linzess is not a laxative. it s a once-daily pill that helps you get ahead of your symptoms. it s proven to help you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. and helps relieve overall abdominal symptoms - belly pain, discomfort, and bloating. do not give linzess to children less than two. it may harm them. do not take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it s severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. these aren t all the side effects. imagine. what could relief from ibs-c mean for you? talk to your doctor and say yess to linzess. learn how abbvie and ironwood could help you save. they say we should stop eating so much meat. talk to your doctor and say yess to linzess. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. higher shipping rates may be “the cost of doing business.” but at what cost? turn shipping to your advantage. with low cost ground shipping from the united states postal service. for all the bravado from republicans insisting that being convicted of 34 felony counts is somehow a good thing, it seems donald trump himself is not a believer. no reporting by political reveals that in the days after his conviction trump made a desperate call to speaker of the house mike johnson. in fact trump was so angry on that call. pleading with the speaker, we have to overturn this. that is not really in the power of the congress, nor should it be. also donald trump was convicted in the state of new york, not the federal system, but that s not stopping them. the morning after the verdict johnson was on trump news making an appeal to the conservatives on the supreme court. i do feel the supreme court should step in. this is unprecedented and dangerous to our system. i think the justices on the court, i know many of them personally. i think they are deeply concerned about that as we are, so i think they will set this straight. yesterday house republican leaders spent the day whipping a bill that would allow presidents charged at the state level to move cases to the federal court. she is a contributing writer at the atlantic where she wrote about trump s absolute disdain for democracy and joins me now. when i saw this i thought that is nutty and not the way any of this works, but that has not stopped things before. i thought that about the mifepristone suit and look how far that god. so it does seem like they are on board, the house republican caucus, on trying to come up with some way of bailing him out. the house republican caucus may be on board, but i don t think that means whatever they are planning will work. if this bill went through i think there would be serious challenges probably made on realism. congress can t just miss around with state courts however it likes and of course he has already been convicted. his options at this point are really appealing through the new york state court system and then the supreme court. there are a handful of legal arguments that he could make on the grounds of federal law, but that will take a very long time and it certainly won t be done before the election. the reporting around the sort of scotus hail mary and this is the daily beast saying that most request for emergency action go to the justice assigned to a particular circuit. in this case it is sotomayor, who has ruled against trump in a most every case before her. the rulebook says the petitioner may renew the application to any other justice of his or her choice and theoretically continue until the majority has denied the application, which means he could keep on the slot machine until the right justice pops up. i m with you again that that seems implausible even by the degree of standards of this supreme court, but that might be true now. all that stands between us and the unthinkable are are those people in power at the high levels going to do the right thing or do something transparently crazy? i do think this is a case for the courts. institutional equities are important to understand. it is also worth noting, the idea that he could ping-pong from justice to justice, that is not how the court tends to do things now. what they usually do is yes the emergency application will go to justice sotomayor and then instead of going to another justice it would go to the full court as a matter of practice and i think it is safe to say they would almost certainly turn it down. this is an extremely conservative court. it is a hard right court, but it is not really a maga court. there have been issues where trump s issues align with those of the conservative justices and uc benefits for him there, but it is really hard for me to see how he could even get to for justices who would be interested in taking on this case right off the bat. he really would be stretching. i totally agree and i think one of the things you see is mitch mcconnell had this sort of speech after january 6 that was basically like this is not the way you do this. basically he was saying you ve got to do the bush league or thing if you want to take an election away, not this january 6 nonsense. do it the bush versus gore way. that is a ludicrous argument and it has done what it needed to do almost certainly in terms of delaying. to call up mike johnson and yell at him to make a magical bill that i am no longer a convicted felon is not going to do the job. right and i think this is what things look like in a federal system. the congress, the president of trump is elected again, they do not have power over what the new york state courts do. alvin bragg, whose office prosecuted this case as district attorney, he was directly elected by the people of manhattan. to some extent i think what trump is really raging against is just the idea that there might be jurisdictions simply out of his control. that is exactly what has him so worked up. quinta jurecic, thank you. coming up, in case $4 million in gifts weren t enough, what s the, it looks like terrence kalama s forgot looks like clarence thomas forgot to disclose another set of gifts. that is ahead. ahead. clean enough for you? yeah! scrape. load. done. cascade platinum plus. i have moderate to severe crohn s disease. now, there s skyrizi. things are looking up, i ve got symptom relief. control of my crohn s means everything to me. control is everything to me. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with 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tiredness. with cabenuva, you re good to go. ask your doctor about switching. president joe biden is in italy today meeting with the world leaders for the 50th g7 summit. this morning the group posed for the classic family photo. this version of that picture, edited by political scientist ian brehmer, reveals something important about the leaders of the world s biggest economies. they are all unpopular. those numbers are net disapproval ratings with joe biden coming in second, underwater by only 18.5 points. there is one reason why these leaders are also unpopular. all g7 nations and most of the world have faced levels of inflation not seen for decades. none of the leaders are directly responsible for that. as you can see job creation coincided with the end of the pandemic. it was the result of a surge of pent-up demand amidst a constrained supply. but voters totally understandably hate inflation. it has been three or four years of prices going up and they blame the incumbent party. in the u.s. the consumer price index hit a whopping 9% in 2022 and we have actually recovered since then, better than our g7 counterparts. the index dropped to 3.3% as of yesterday. that is the rate of increase. prices are going up at a slower rate. cumulatively prices are still way up here and everywhere, but the truth is that joe biden didn t have a lot to do with the fact this line went up or that it went down. that is mostly circumstances outside his control. the bed. i will say this. joe biden s administration has tried very hard to cut costs for americans wherever they can, taking steps to lower prescription drug costs. canceling student debt. getting rid of junk fees for airlines and banks, for example. but for the most part being real, the rise and fall in inflation was the result of external factors like the pandemic and decisions by the federal reserve outside president biden s control. voters might look and say well then, why does it matter who the next president is? it is calming down on its own. it matters because donald trump is running on the most explicit inflationary platform in modern history. i think we should have a ring around the collar, as they say. i think when companies come in and dump products in the united states they should pay automatically, let s say a 10% tax. i do like 10% for everybody. trump s proposal, a 10% tariff on all foreign goods would basically be a sales tax. it would raise prices for american consumers 10% on everything from avocados to iphones. if you think that is bad, today, behind closed doors outside of the view of cameras, donald trump proposed one of the most arranged policies i have ever heard. he told republican lawmakers behind closed doors that he wants to eliminate the income tax and replace it entirely with tariffs, effectively taking us back to the 19th century. this idea makes as much sense as ripping up the interstate highway system and replacing it with canals. economist paul krugman did some math and estimates the policy would require an average tariff of 133%. not 10%. that is a 133% tax psych on all imported goods that would be passed on to consumers. it would cost americans hundreds of millions of dollars. a policy advisor explained further. another way to put trump s latest incredibly unworkable idea, get this, it would raise taxes by $5000 for a typical family if you are a working person who buys stuff. it would cut taxes for the average family in the top 0.1% by $1.5 million. this proposal would jack up everything everywhere for normal people, crushing the average american s wallet, while giving the wealthiest folks who no longer have to pay income tax and don t buy that much relative to their income, and enormous windfall of millions of dollars. this is the man who has a 50-50 shot of taking the white house, in large part because of the conditions that produced high inflation and he is seriously and earnestly currently running on the most inflationary platform i ve ever 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food programme empower families across the globe. surprise, there are even more undisclosed private jet trips. tonight we are learning supreme court justice clarence thomas took at least three private jet trips paid for by his benefactor billionaire republican harlan crow, according to an ongoing investigation by democrats on the senate judiciary committee. propublica is reporting the newly revealed flights add to the picture of using the jets for personal travel. he owns a high-end jet that can cost over $10,000 per flight hour to charter according to charter company estimates and thomas has repeatedly flown to a destination and back again on the same day. in a statement thomas s lawyer said the trips fell under the personal hospitality exemption and was not required to be asked closed to be disclosed. the reporter who broke the story about many of the undisclosed gifts, he and his rest of his team won a pulitzer for the reporting last year and joins me now. congratulations, by the way. three more trips. what have we learned? the thing that is so striking is the scale of it. we are looking at a picture where harlan crow s private jet, a particularly nice private jet was at the disposal of justice thomas and there are multiple incidents where, for example, flying from washington, d.c. to san jose, california, staying for a few hours and turning around and going back on the same day. that s happened repeatedly. and going from where the jet is based in dallas to d.c. to pick up the justice. it adds to a long list and the picture is a billionaire political donor in a real way subsidizing the life of a justice. they don t make clear the purpose of the trips that included trip from st. louis to montana. location of glacier park international airport. he was scheduled to be in st. louis for a speech. in one instance he flew from the east coast to san jose and returned home later that day. another he took a round-trip flight from washington, d.c. to savannah, georgia. this is how taylor swift or elon musk, that is how they get around. right, the round-trip alone, seemingly for some kind of lunch, we don t know what it was for, still, that could easily cost $100,000 for the flight. probably double the median income that an american makes in a year. it is an extraordinary amount of money. a $100,000 flight. yeah and last week justin thomas amended some prior years disclosure forms to disclose other things harlan crow has paid for. hotels and lodging and vacations. a trip to california. that is the third time he s done that. to be clear, these three no one knew about and no one reported. these were totally new to us. you had no idea? i had no idea. this is it, right? this has to be it. i think we have an absolute, definitive account. look, some of the reporting we did took myself and coworkers months of reporting to piece together these trips that justice thomas and justice alito also got. we don t have subpoena power. the senate judiciary committee does. they said today there would be a full report coming out this summer, so i would not be surprised if there are more revelations. they subpoenaed leonard leo as well, who basically told them to go pound sand. pound sand, thank you for stopping me from saying what i was going to say. harlan crow, he is cooperating. they are getting this from harlan crow. right. they authorized a subpoena. didn t actually issue attended became leverage in negotiations with lawyers and they came up with this deal where he is giving information about the past seven years. potentially not just travel. we will find out when the full investigation comes out this summer. we have to update our bar chart. it is a tough one to read. let s see, which one is thomas? right, there he is on the left. we might need to raise up that bar after we price these ones in. maybe this summer we will get more. can i get your response since i have you here about something justice alito said about your reporting. this is something that he said recently. surreptitiously recorded. take a listen. there are groups that are very well-funded by ideological groups that have spearheaded these attacks. that s what it is, you know. like who? propublica. propublica gets a lot of money and they have spent a fortune investigating clarence thomas for example. have you spent a fortune or are these ideological attacks? it was frankly disturbing to hear this because it was speculation based on no evidence. as one of the two or three reporters who did this work i tell you how it started, which was not a report on justice thomas and alito. we will report on how supreme court justices are spending their time when they are not at the court. it started with a stack of documents of travel records with no names and we pieced together that it is justice thomas taking private jets. we took a hard look at democratic appointed justices and simply found nothing equivalent. if we could put up that bar chart for a second, it is hard to find the signal for the noise in that chart. it takes a lot of energy to uncover that one on the left. right, if somebody out there knows about george soros funding trips, i would love to report it. you can find my contact information on all of our stories. thank you. coming up, as the supreme court rejects the attempt to ban the abortion pill, why the right wing is just getting started on reproductive rights. next. nuggets. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. when we say it ll be on time they expect it to be on time. turn shipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. my name is marie. i m 49 years old and i m a business owner. i own a lemonade and ice cream shop in florida, so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just from a year out in the sun. i m still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. i did not want a dramatic change. i wanted something subtle. and i m really, 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comfortable. always. fear no gush. they say we should stop eating so much meat. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. today the supreme court unanimously rejected an attempt to limit access to the abortion pill mifepristone and that, i should say, is definitely good. mifepristone is used in more than 60% of all abortions in this country, as well as the treatment of miscarriages. it should remain easily accessible, but this case should not have made its way to the supreme court in the first place. it is shocking that it did. the case is based on faulty legal logic and was first introduced by a conservative group in amarillo, texas. incorporated there so they could file the case and ensure it would land before a hard right activist appointed to the bench by donald trump. predictably the pan plan worked. issued a nationwide injunction. the decision was mostly upheld by the court of appeals. that court of appeals is arguably the most radically right wing pro trump court in the land. the supreme court threw it out today because plaintiffs lacked standing and the entire ruse was too ridiculous even for this court. make no mistake, republicans may have lost this battle, but they are still fighting the war. it is all but certain that they will bring a similar suit again and will absolutely do so given the opportunity. they don t want to stop there. today senate republicans blocked a bill enshrining protections for ivf only a day after the southern baptist convention, the largest protestant this domination days protestant denomination in the country voted to condemn the procedure. the republican party and grassroots of the party truly believe in this. they are not going to stop there crow seed against stop there crusade against reproductive rights. joining me now is nbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. i guess let s start with the decision today which was not surprising. they kicked it on what are called standing grounds. what does that mean? standing is the notion that you have to be a person who has been injured to maintain a lawsuit. it goes back to the concept that the courts can only hear cases or controversies, not imagined grievances. what the court is saying is that the alliance for defending freedom did not have standing to bring their suit and there are a couple of lines. in one place justice kavanaugh says an organization that has not suffered a concrete injury caused by a defendant s action cannot spend its way into s standing by spending money together information and advocate against the defendant, meaning the food and drug administration s action. that is the good part of this. but as you noted, there are little easter eggs sprinkled throughout this decision that are sort of gifts to the antiabortion right. in large part because of one side can t have standing, the other can t either. one of the things this says is that doctors should not presume that they will have standing to advocate for their patients. that usually means something very different for pro-abortion doctors than it does on the anti-choice side. that s a great point. i want to read the standing argument the plaintiffs presented, because it is one of my favorites. this is from the initial, i don t think of this is the scotus brief or district court. doctors lose the opportunity to provide professional services and care for the women and child through pregnancy which causes harms to providers who can no longer care for their patients and bring about the successful delivery of a new life. you deprive me of the joy of delivering your baby, which is a tangible harm to me, ergo i have standing. the standing analysis survived the district court and survived the fifth circuit court of appeals. it is kind of galling and there is a twist on that argument, too. you deprive me of the ability to care for more deserving patients, the women who want to deliver their children as opposed to women who present in the emergency room having had a complication. hypothetically, to be clear. that hypothetically might do so. when i am forced to divert my attention from deserving woman a, to take care of you, morally bankrupt woman b. you can do this through the courts or through the department of justice if you have the teeth to do it. here is justice samuel alito talking about, he does not say the name, interestingly. he just reads the u.s. section and the solicitor general of the united states does say the name. listen. shouldn t the fda at least have considered the application i think the comstock provisions don t fall within fda s lane. the comstock laws, those are passed in the victorian era to outlaw basically all tools for abortion and birth control. and really sending them between states. if you want to talk about zombie laws and we have talked about them a lot on your show and others. these are statutes prohibiting abortion or things that allow people to achieve abortion. it was a zombie law and it was understood for many decades that the comstock law had no effect. why? because row was in existence. the biden administration has made clear they don t believe the comstock act needs to be enforced unless the intent is to help somebody accomplish something that would be unlawful and given the mail order prescription of mifepristone is lawful, then the interpretation is there is nothing to be done. a different administration however, you can count on the same sorts of folks to press that heavily with the department of justice. and i want to be clear. there are criminal penalties attached to the comstock laws. the department of justice could conceivably on day one start having the fbi arrest people and prosecute people for mailing abortion drugs. they may not even have to go that far. i think the lesson is that you can terrorize people into not doing anything just by having a law and having the threat out there that somebody could be criminally prosecuted for doing something. the comstock act, this is not a hypothetical. there are lots of folks in right-wing circles writing about and talking about this. lisa rubin, thank you. thank you. that is all in on this thursday night. alex wagner starts now. good evening. there are women already terrified making choices about bodily economy. certainly. fear at all levels of american society. thank you, my friend. today donald trump made his first visit to capitol hill. the first time since his followers ransacked the capital on january 6. to unde

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Transcripts For FOXNEWS Jesse Watters Primetime 20240614



and ultimately humans and what s really best for society. you headed isabel. it s a threat to their power structure. family faith first. the government is not so important suddenly and neither is politics. as a you getting married it? you are about to get married yourself? i am on june 29th, right around the corner. i think there s a revival toward the things that matter most the things that have enduring importance in our lives. congratulations on that, best wishes. we are going to do a lot longer segment later on. that s it for us tonight. make sure to follow me on social media, thank you for watching. remember it s america now and forever. jesse watters is going to take it from here. jesse: welcome to jesse watters primetime p. are tonight. we have great unity, we have great common sense, we have one thing in mind that s making our country great. reporter: trump back in washington. biden in italy getting lost. i think she should step down. it should the democratic party remove her if she doesn t? i think so. jesse: wearing thin. the first runner-up is. jesse: a man wins ms. miss maryland. plus. are you a manly man? no. jesse: a swing and amaze pure goes of the words about her never wants to hear but at last night s congressional baseball game it s all democrats heard. and a swing and a miss. and a swing and a miss. and a swing and a miss that will end the inning. jesse: republicans roughed up democrats 31-11 the. at the baseball score. maybe a little preview of what s coming in november. if you think about it, baseball is kind of like politics. if you keep striking out you put the other team back at bad. all season democrats have been striking out with hoax after hoax, the dictator on day one, bloodbath and revenge. strike three. jesse: democrats just put the other team back at bat in their own home stadium, washington dc. donald trump back on capitol hill for the first time in almost four years. the former president spent the day meeting with house republicans, senators and businessmen. this was a great meeting. there is tremendous unity in the republican party. we want to see borders, we want to see strong military. we want to see money not wasted all over the world. we have great commonsense, a lot of very smart people in this room. a lot of people that love our country. they love it just beyond all else and the only thing that ab supersedes it is their family and maybe their faith in certain instances and that s very nice but they want this country to be great again and we are going to make a great again. jesse: donald trump is running around dc trying to unite the party in the country because teamwork makes the dream work. and we d never seen the republican party disunited under trump. even gave them a birthday cake. [ inaudible ] [ applause ] jesse: there was so much love and unity in the room it broke adam shifts brain. guilty, guilty, guilty,. jesse: has battle cry was heard by the media and they went to work doing what they do best. apparently the former president made for made reference to hannibal lecter saying he even had a friend over for dinner. we ve seen him praising hannibal lecter. apparently did it again this morning, not sure we fully understand the context of that. jesse: we weren t inside the room but neither was cnn and that s the point. we did what journalists do, we went towards sources who were actually there. did trump really call a flesh eating serial killer a nice guy? no. trump was joking that if he said something about hannibal lecter, the fake news media would say he was praising him. cnn took the bait. and that wasn t the only hoax. i m getting word from my producers we have a new hoax alert. he said as it s gotten a lot of publicity and we broke this that he doesn t like the walkie, it s a horrible city he says. the campaign is pushed back on that. everybody comes out and didn t say it. of course he said it. that is according to almost everybody in the room. jesse: everybody in the room says he didn t say it. as soon as the news broke people inside the room debunked it. a congressman says i was in the meeting, president trump never disparaged milwaukee. another one, i was in the room appear president trump did not say this. another, trump was specifically referring to the crime rate in milwaukee. here s what trump had to say. democrats are also hating you on this comment that you made about milwaukee, the host city for the rnc for the convention and they seem to believe that you said that it was a horrible city. can you nip this in the bud and clarify what you meant. i think it was very clear what i meant. i said we are very concerned with crime. i love milwaukee, i have great friends in milwaukee. the crime numbers are terrible and we have to be very careful. jesse: how is the media directly quoting him if they are not in the room with him. and then telling the people inside of the room that they are wrong. it s what nancy pelosi calls the wrapup smear. you smear your opponent with lies, the press writes about it, that validates it and then the politicians run with it. as soon as the media reported the hoax, the mayor of milwaukee rushed to the camera. donald trump wants to talk about things that he thing so horrible, all of us lived through his presidency so right back at you buddy. joe biden saying i happen to love milwaukee. he didn t write that himself. kamala harris saying milwaukee is a beautiful city and for the record, milwaukee was the third most violent city in the nation, third most. so when primetime goes to the convention, johnny is going to have two bodyguards. democrats are down late in the game, you can t yank them because you have no bullpen. so you just have to keep throwing trash. here s more. the media wants to to thank trump spent every waking second plotting revenge. i m told there s a similar dynamic behind closed doors with advisors or other republicans where he will talk about revenge , sometimes get a look of d. really mean that and he makes it clear he does. this is his retribution, that s the word that s been at the centre of this campaign for a year now. they re not going to be. it s going to be true believers and loyalists. if trump says he wants revenge or i want to target a particular person or institution they are going to do that. jesse: who are these advisors that are leaking this to msnbc? they don t exist. it s made up. trump s people don t talk to this guy. look at him. he s on morning joe. they say trump went to washington to harness the power of congress to go to war against the democrats. really? people inside of the room told us revenge never came up. it was the economy, foreign policy and election strategy. it was forward-looking. a feeling that washington hasn t felt in four years. that s not revenge, that s success and like trump says, success is his revenge. she was in the room with trump today she joins me now. so he did not praise hannibal lecter? much to cnn s despair he did not. he joked about the fact that they were going to report fake news and many of us were there. they don t want to talk about the fact that he has a plan in dealing with our foreign policy debacles that this diminished ration has caused. we are excited about the numbers we are hearing. jesse: what were the policies that he was discussing today behind closed doors with you guys? the number 1 issue that he has is concern for what s happening with russia. there s the media really silencing what s happening with russia. warships off the coast of cuba and also florida. i think more importantly he made sure that the american people would know that what is currently happening in ukraine and israel would ve never happened under him and he does have a plan and solution moving forward and i also want to point out that he understands that world leaders respect him and right now what s coming out of the white house, a lot of people realize that joe biden is likely not going to be the nominee which is from what we are hearing on capitol hill, representative kylie had reported that kamala harris eyeing a run for california governor because of it. jesse: so you are hearing also in dc that joe biden isn t going to be the democrat nominee? correct. it appears that our colleagues are trying to put guardrails on a 2024 presidential election with president trump and also what you are seeing is according to our pulling, you know as well as i do that they have been trying to paint republicans as anti- woman and trying to push an abortion crisis right now with the election and i don t think that s a case. a lot of the american people know that this is a state rights decision so i think that they know that they are losing. jesse: the straight truth from inside the room, didn t need any spin from cnn. thank you so much. we always appreciate you coming on the show. north dakota governor and potential vp candidate joins me now. so you are going to be in milwaukee, it has a crime problem. third worst violent crime last year of any city in the united states. are you used to this so far, they just make things up and then merchandise it? i wish that every american could see what i ve seen the last six months because the opportunity to be with president trump, be in the room, see what s reported whether it s at the trial or at a rally, whether it s at a fundraiser, the thing that i see reported versus. are two different planets just like you described tonight. jesse: when you guys are behind-the-scenes talking policy , personnel, what you mostly focused on? i want to say when president trump. guided over a dozen events between roundtables, rallies and fundraiser things, sometimes 500 people, sometimes a thousand. whether he s in the line getting the photo or at a roundtable with the owners that are job creators, the number 1 thing people don t report is he s curious. he s asking them how are biden s regulations hurting you. what d the things you need to help moving forward. are they being affected affected by inflation? he understands. he was in the hospitality business. he cares about what people are experiencing and then that feeds into his thinking. i looked at that schedule that he had, and joe biden couldn t have done one of those events and he did 14 nonstop 12 hours a day moving between locations. incredible the energy and the stamina. he s got real interest in people. jesse: how unified is the republican party right now? never been more unified. jesse: is out of feeling or can you see numbers to that? everybody is coming together. you are seeing it in the primaries that are happening around the nation right now. everybody is unified and they are unified for two reasons. one is because they know that president trump represents strength whether that s on the world stage or on the economy or the border or it s fighting inflation, he represents that strength. they are also unified because what s the alternative? the alternative is joe biden s weakness which has started wars, it s inviting wars. it s inviting russia to come to cuba. president trump is actually a deterrent. we talked about our defence budget. but that kind the white house and we don t have to raise our defence budget a dime and also we ve got a better deterrent because they know that we ve got strength that we would be willing to use. al raed our economy, diplomacy. jesse: i was looking at the new york times over the weekend, big hit piece. your name keeps coming up as vp. big hit piece, how are you feeling about all of this? a lot of that is a distraction. of the key is the ability to focus on. the key is making sure that we elect president trump because there s never been a politician, a leader like him in history. no one has raised the kind of money that he s been able to raise. no one generates the crowds he s been able to generate and no one has the enthusiasm. you go to a fundraiser and they say there s going to be san francisco or all of these rides riots and protesters and nobody shows up to protest against them but i thousand people are waving their flags and cheering for him. you get down to newport and it s people lined up with boats on the water. i take it back to one thing, the people that show up and are waving the flags along the sidewalks. they are all working, they all have jobs and they all know they were better off under president trump and they are under joe biden and that s where it is. it s working class people that care about america. that s his voting block. jesse: basic economics. thank you very much. johnny hit the streets. it s a tough one right? that s a tough one. s s i was only 23 when i was first diagnosed with non-melanoma skin cancer. 40 years later, i ve had almost 20 mohs surgeries. i had just accepted that the pain and the scars were going to be part of my life. but when i was diagnosed with two basal cells on my face, i became determined to find an alternative to surgery. if you, like millions of others, are affected by skin cancer. it s important to know that surgery isn t the only option. there s another choice. gentlecure. it sounded like everything i had been looking for. gentlecure uses low energy x-rays to kill skin cancer cells with a 99% cure rate. plus, there s no cutting, no surgical scarring and no downtime. i m so glad i did it. it was successful in every way. to learn more, call today or go to gentlecure.com jesse: last night we told you biden can t run on his record so they are going to drag him across the finish line and replace him with come all after inauguration. they have to distract you from how old and incompetent he has. the way they do that is to slap those labels on trump. you will hear trump say the most common sense things biden s failed policies. the shower presser regulations making you have a bad hair day. this weak trump said democrats are going to start putting electric batteries not just in cars but in boats. and if you know anything about how heavy these batteries are, that boat is going down. there s a shark 10 yards away from the boat. do i get electrocuted if the boat is sinking and water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking, do i stay on top of the bow and get electrocuted or do i jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted. jesse: you hear that and you laugh but it makes sense. the media here is it and calls him senile. he s out there talking about wind turbines and sharks in boats and sinking, not talking about issues voters care about. if this was your father you would take him in for a neurological exam. fox news didn t carry them or broadcast them. didn t air them after the fact either. in the words of stephen king, that speech was like listening to your senile uncle at the dinner table after he has that third drink. jesse: except fox did our that and we aired it monday. biden says cannibals snacked on his uncle and that he started the civil rights movement, that a lightning strike burned his house down and almost killed dr jill and whiskers the cat. and he s a puerto rican truck driving jewish professor who went to a historically black college and captain their undefeated football team and won a lawsuit for a guy who lost a testicle in a construction accident. trump stories relate to real concerns people have about public policy. biden stories, the fantastical lies of an insecure old man desperately trying to relate to people. biden was in europe today at the g7 and wandered alone into an italian field. jesse: people are falling out of the skies and he can t even focus. wise he always going in the wrong direction? and why he is the always moving in such slow-motion. world leaders have to hurt him like a stray sheep. reportedly the main focus in italy has been making sure biden gets his sleep. president biden got a much earlier start than he usually does today. aids typically keep him as close to an east coast schedule even on a trip like this as they possibly can one it s possible but today when you look at the tape he was rolling out of the hotel about 5:11 am eastern. jesse: you can see the cpap creases on his face when he leaves the white house at noon. now joe is trying to turn sleepy joe into an asset. what he s doing at three in the morning i don t know. jesse: today biden signed a ten-year defence agreement with ukraine and confirmed that we expect to see ukraine joined nato in the future. what? do we get a say in that? oh and we ve loosened the rules of engagement allowing american weapons to be fired from ukraine into russia proper. ukraine will be getting f-16s this summer. and those of you in miami may have noticed but the russian navy just held a poor call in cuba 90 miles up the american coast. china s building deep water ports in south america, hello munro doctor npr china selling dual use tech to russia s war machine. china just landed on the moon and saudi arabia just ended its 80 year deal with the united states to sell oil solely in dollars. i think that s enough to worry about. does the man wandering alone into an italian field look like he has everything under control? it s not a shark but it s pretty scary. former sec reof state secretary of state mike pompeo joins me know. you are seeing the president wander around alone away from everybody as people are falling out of the sky. does not give you confidence that he has this world under control? it s good to be with you and thank goodness for prime minister who grabbed him and kept him from walking off completely. it certainly doesn t give any american confidence and the contrast between seeing president biden unable to perform basic functions to keep america safe and we know the policies have failed. i think the american people, it was a bad day for america and one sense. we saw our president failed to be able to lead on the world stage but it was a good day and we got to say there s a sharp contrast as we all consider what s going to happen in november. jesse: we want to win proxy wars. we also want to make peace everywhere donald trump s big message today on foreign policy behind the scenes at sec. was we of these messes in europe, in asia, in the middle east if he were president. it s remarkable to watch the biden administration say we ve done such a good job, everybody s working hand-in-hand. you ve gotten tens of thousands of ukrainians killed. you failed to deter. 1200 israelis dead on your watch. still a war going on in gaza. the failure of the policy isn t that you react after the crisis is taking place it s that you are strong enough and then america s leading sufficiently so you can deter the bad guys. the other folks that watch this today were chairman kim in north korea,. they all watched what happened today in italy and said we think we are right, this may well be the time that we continue to probe and test america because when president biden said he doesn t know what donald trump is doing at three m, i hope we never get that three m call with president biden as commander-in-chief. jesse: he wants to pat himself on the back for reacting but we shouldn t have been in this position in the first place. today fanny willis took us to church. i m so tired of hearing these idiots call my name as fanny in a way to attempt to humiliate me because like silly schoolboys, the name reminds them of a woman s rear. they get mad when i call out their lunacy. you can t pistol on me and tell me it s raining. jesse: we are not trying to humiliate her, we thought her name was. and i we don t feel like going back. nathan wade went on cnn and was asked when did you start sleeping with her. these exact dates are at issue and these dates are i m getting signalled here. jesse: they apparently hadn t prepared him to answer the one question at the centre of the entire case. sohi exit out mid-interview to prep him? it s not like she asked him did you guys ever go to the cabin. did you go to a cabin with ms. miss willis ever? ever? ever. no. jesse: happy dei thursday. why did you stop the ballots? there is video viewed stopping the ballots. do you have anything to say? wanda? what do you want to say to the people of bridgeport? jesse: that was johnny confronting wander the stuff her after she was shoving a legal ballots in a dropbox peer she was arrested along with three other democrats. she was charged with ballot fraud and witness intimidation tied to the 2019 election. tonight we got our hands on the arrest warrant. we learned investigators examined absentee ballots, surveillance video from bridgeport senior housing and use witnessed interviews as evidenced to make the arrest. a voter who did not request an absentee ballot told investigators wanda came to my house and told me only to sign the bottom of the blank application. she went on to say i have done with the done this with wanda over the past ten years. wanda said no. jesse: it was a got punched a democrats peer she s been there ballot wizard for over a decade. wanda has a government job, runs the city s democratic party and is the gatekeeper at the mayor s office. now she s busted and democrats need to answer some questions. reporters have been chasing down connecticut s democratic governor since the arrest. he endorsed the men wanda allegedly stopped for. the governor thinks the mayor had nothing to do with it of course but says wanda should take the fall. i think she should step down. if she won t step down, should the democratic report democratic party remove her? i should thank so. are you going to ask them to do that. i hope they do the right thing. jesse: hours after wanda was arrested, he signed a bill that puts a camera on every dropbox in the state. primetime called for this months ago. it took four arrests to make it happen. it s not enough to end corruption and secure elections but it s a step in the right direction. next let s get rid of the drop boxes altogether. they are ripe for fraud. will have more on wanda soon. we have new details on biden s bad dog. the president watched as commander attacked secret service agents. kevin corke is in dc with the story. an exclusive window into the harrowing circumstances surrounding commander, the president s dog and his numerous attacks on secret service agents which could top three dozen such attacks according to new really newly released records. apparently the president himself was present for at least three of those attacks. now everybody knows commander has been known to bite but there are a lot of examples you may not know about including this one. as i started to walk toward him, him being the president, to see if you needed help, commander ran through his legs and bit my left arm through the front of my jacket. i pulled my arm away and yelled no, potus yelled and then blank. the story went on to say that the dog later jumped up and bit him in the left arm again for a second time. his suit coat had not one, not to but three holes. and that s not it, there are other conversations between secret service officials including this one from september 2023. tmz just reported a dog bite at the white house dog bite at the white house. can we find a way to get this dog muzzled. you will recall former first dog major was also rehoused back in 2021 after apparently attacking a lot of people. secret service members wish each other safe shift as the attacks mounted. that s really damning right there. that tells you plenty. i ve been written by a vicious democrat dog and it hurts. still have a mark on my upper thigh. thank you so much. jesse: so what is a man? why does society want men to act like women. now they are djs and promoters . jesse: happy dei thursday. we re bringing you the best stories about diversity, equity and inclusion. first stop the beauty pageant crowned their winter over the weekend. sorry ladies, the crown went to an asian man. the first runner-up is. trace: jesse: they were born cambodian baby boy before getting a sex change. they say we see bailey s win as a win for everyone who dreamed the impossible dream. impossible. we told you about how biden spent nearly a billion dollars and only built seven ev charging stations. now we are finding out why. white house insiders are blaming dei. the regulations for government contractors are huge roadblocks. construction can t start until the builders prove they are inclusive. they have to host block parties and minority communities with interpreters in case nobody speaks english. and they have to hire minority subcontractors to do all the work. good luck finding a black electrician in maine. mountain view high school was pumped to hear their gay senior gift will be a massive mural of thor representing their thunder mascot. the school s equity office cancelled it because thor is racist. according to one student, the equity office said thor was. and is a white supremacist and the image should be more inclusive. no dei thursday is complete without a primetime victory. transits will merit leah thomas will not be participating in the summer olympics. thomas lost a legal battle that he hoped would overturn a policy that bans athletes who have been through male puberty from competing in the female category. you can try again in four years. let s bring an author of the sad truth about happiness. when you hear how preposterous some of these dei items are, what goes through your mind? of course i live within the ecosystem of academia so none of this surprises me up and warn against this for two decades picked just make you feel better down there in the united states we are even crazier in canada. let me give you a few examples to add to your d. dei thursday lineup. at my university, or five-year strategic plan posits that we must now all indigenous eyes and decolonize our curriculum. it doesn t matter what you are teaching, you to be teaching pure mathematics or neuroscience or shakespeare, you need to decolonize and indigent eyes that. second example, on may 17th you ll be happy to hear that we held a symposium on menstrual equity because it turns out that menstruation is a human rights. i didn t know that women were forbidden to men straight in canada but apparently we need to have a symposium. third quick example, university of waterloo is searching for a professor in artificial intelligence, they have to be either gender fluidity, nonbinary or whatever or to spirit. you haven t reached the level of lunacy that we have in canada. i m enjoying the canadian dei edition on dei thursday very much. menstruation is a human right that i don t need because i can be a little bit of a complainer. when you process some of these things, what do you think the end goal is besides screwing around with everybody else. what you think is really motivating it? postmodernism, i call it the granddaddy of all parasitic ideas because it purports that there are no objective truths. it s a form of intellectual terrorism. operas down, slavery as freedom, men or women. it s a way to liberate ourselves from the pesky shackles of reality. it s grotesque, it needs to end and we need to return to a commitment to reason, logic and science. jesse: it s like modern arts. i don t understand it, it changes all the roles, makes no sense but people thank it s amazing. happy dei thursday to our canadian friends. a new study says men won t call out sick from work because it s not manly. so what does it mean to be a man? johnny went out and found out. define a man. that s not simple. it s a tough one right? it s a tough one. this is hard to. someone who is strong. if that demand, what the manly man? someone who looks good doing it. the firefighter who is at the door in the middle of the night. he drives a harley for no reason. a manly man takes orders from his wife? are you a manly man? no. what is a man have to do to be considered a real man? have a job at. love a man that works out. he s not sitting out here. not giving up [ bleep ] what other people think. why does today s society want men to act like women. they used to go to war now they are djs. masculine characteristics have been demonized. he was complaining to some woman about something that women do. every time i think about trump i get allergic. and want to put men and women sports and the women lose. that s not funny. should men cry? i don t want to see men crying. i cry a lot. i love crying, i think it s so fun. he came to my office, tears in his eyes. mentor saying they are afraid to take a sick day because they don t want to appear weak. they should suck it up at. what if you did have covid and you got the whole office sick. so you are a big believer in . should men be drinking out of straws? yes. do you think that s very manly? yes. father s day is coming up, what is more one important lesson about manhood that your father is taught you. to be financially responsible. they all want one thing and it s inevitable. is joe biden a manly president? he is not as sure of himself. he s doing better than trump i know that. how s the crime? worse every day. how s the border? it s messed up now man. tell me again why biden is better than trump. you have a good point. can men get pregnant? i don t know because i have i m not sure if. i will tell you at the time, i ll keep you in suspense. jesse watters, manly man what you think? he s going to see it. he s a man but he does wear makeup because he s on tv. i think he has cojones man. jesse: the spartan race part two next. sues keep piling up? it may be due to a buildup of amyloid plaques in the brain. visit morethannormalaging.com home inspectors, general contractors, roofers; all kinds of pros recommend leaffilter. why? it s engineered for performance. because with leaffilter s patented filter technology, there s no gaps, no openings, no place for debris to get in at all. leaffilter is a permanent solution we install on your existing gutters. you ll never have to climb a ladder to clean out your gutters again. our installation process is simple and easy. just give us a call and set up an appointment today. we ll come out and give you a free gutter inspection. if your gutters are sagging, we ll repair them. if they re broken, we ll replace them. if they re in good shape, our local trusted pros will install leaffilter in as little as a few hours. and the best part? leaffilter comes with a lifetime transferable no-clogs guarantee! you ll never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again! it s peace of mind, and then some. call us today to get started. join millions of satisfied homeowners, schedule your free inspection today! call 833 leaffilter, or visit leaffilter.com my back got injured very bad. i was off work for about a year. i heard about relief factor from my wife. i took it every day, three times a day, for three weeks. .look at her and i said, the pain is gone. and she said, i m glad it helped. i said, no, you don t understand. it s gone. you, too, can feel better every day with relief factor, a daily supplement that fights pain naturally. call or go online now and get 35% off your first order. jesse: the spartan race part geomagnetic time with video. weedeater you up yesterday. this is achille climbing through the mud to make what is this a 5 k? a 5 k got stuck in the mud, had to be rescued, pulled out by gerrit but i can t let them go. now this is a ropes course. this is what they due for f fun. i don t understand these people. these people are crazy! but this is what they due in their free time. look at this. this is just vicious currents, water streaming through their nostrils. other even swimming? what is this? this is going on their barbed wire. running. fire is involved. they want to torture themselves. working for presage jesse watters prime time, they have to do in their free time. we are very proud of a keylock on everyone else on the fox group. talking about tony s. koneh s. will not aquila, obviously. [laughter] let s do some stacks. mark from whitefield, kansas, there s only one thing worse then a broken record, a shifty broken record. i just want to apologize to the audience, that was a terrible shifty soundbite. tyler from kentucky, watch out for that doug burgum fellow, he has great hair. they re here alone will get you on the ticket. greg know we ve got janine from milwaukee, and wisconsin, come to milwaukee, exhibit a city with beautiful people. state downtown, and obraro recap take a picture with the bronze funds. we ll be there in milwaukee the whole week, johnny will be there cutting trouble. johnny from brooklyn, what about men blowing up candles? is that manly? . only on a birthday cake. if you re doing it in a dining room, use the software. always remember, i am watters, this is my world. sean:

Society , Humans , Threat , Power-structure , Isabel , News , Person , Television-presenter , Hair-coloring , Newscaster , Skin , Television-program

Transcripts For MSNBC Alex Wagner Tonight 20240613



hamas in gaza. i can t thank you enough for making time for us. we re all thinking about you and your family. thank you very much. and we pray for the safe return of all of the hostages as soon as possible. this is a humanitarian issue. this is not some political issue, and people trying to make this a political issue, especially, the government trying to make this political. no, this is a humanitarian crisis. and everything should be done to get them back as soon as possible. thank you very much. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. 250 days, just unbelievable this is where we are. thank you, my friend, as always. so i want to start with a story that in any other universe would have absolutely nothing to do with politics or anything even approximating controversy. the kind of news we all used to read or hear and accept. but in the post-trump era, this kind of news has become a sort of conservative litmus test with potentially disastrous consequences for the health and the well being of thousands and thousands of americans. i am talking about bird flu. i know. stay with me here. if you have been following the news recently, you may have seen that the u.s. is currently dealing with an outbreak of bird flu. bird flu has spread to at least 80 cattle herds across over five states. and because of that outbreak, the fda, the food and drug administration, has issued guidance for how to stay safe and avoid exposure, including warning americans against drinking raw milk. that s because raw milk has the potential to spread animal borne diseases from one species to another. this is pretty straight forward, noncontroversial scientific advice, don t drink raw milk. it s noncontroversial except if you are a conservative who follows the influential, pro-trump youth organization turning points usa. milk is good for you, but here s what the american dairy farmers association or whatever isn t going to tell you is that that pasture rised milk crap, you might as well be drinking water. it does nothing. it s not healthy. ideally, you need to be drinking raw milk. that was alex clark a turning point usa host, and one of the chief proponents of drinking raw milk. miss clark is such a raw milk enthusiast she tells her followers to drink raw milk while pregnant, something that you absolutely not do under any circumstances. and in response to the fda s warning about drinking raw milk during a bird flu outbreak, alex clark told her nearly 200,000 followers on social media, f the fda, legalize raw milk. this issue so animates conservatives that turning point usa is currently selling $35 t-shirts on their website promoting raw milk. now, if this seems like an echo of the anti-vax, anti-fauci, anti-science movement embraced by a ton of conservatives and therefore put a lot of that put a lot of this country at risk, well that is because it is. it is precisely the kind of extreme, own the libs, reality be position that is a hall mark of turning point usa under charlie kirk. charlie kirk and turning point usa have been an influential part of maga land since donald trump was elected in 2016. in recent year, kirk and his organization have become more outspoken about their beliefs, including kirk s embrace of christian nationalism. in addition to running what appears to be a raw milk propaganda outfit, charlie kirk is also a supporter of something known as the seven mountains mandate a philosophy that calls for conservative christians to take over the government. and kirk has started speaking openly about how he wants donald trump to be the champion of that cause. finally, we have a president that understands the seven mountains of cultural influence. finally we have a president that understands the significance of standing, yes, i m going to use a term, in solidarity with the grassroots activists of our country. across the republican party, christian conservatives are becoming more and more emboldened about making america a christian nation under trump, even as trump himself continues to exhibit some very unchristian behavior on a near daily basis. this was donald trump a week ago at a campaign event inside a phoenix mega church. so they come up with this order i won t say it because i don t like using the word [ bleep ] in front of these beautiful children, so i won t say it. i will not say it. but this thing allows millions of people bleep [ bleep ] donald trump swearing in a house of god and then getting the crowd to swear with him in front of children. we ve seen the same thing from trump s allies. here was rudy giuliani speaking at the pro-trump christian reawaken tour just last week. i ve got two prosecutors, fani the i m sorry. fani willis. fani. it s not fanny, and i m not calling her fani. i could drop the part if she d quit and go away. classy. all of this is part of trump s unspoken agreement with the christian far right. they let trump and his allies break the rules and be vulgar and be blasphemous with the expectation that they will refashion american life according to their christian values. may not be a bad bet either. here was trump just this week speaking to a conservative christian organization that believes all abortion is, quote, child sacrifice. you re going to make a comeback like just about no other group. i know what s happening. i know where you re coming from and where you re going. and i ll be with you side by side. you re going to make a comeback and i ll be with you side by side. even as donald trump refuses to give straight answers about where he stands on things like a national abortion ban or contraception, conservative christian groups understand what trump will do for them. it s not that much of a mystery. and part of their confidence here that an extreme christian nationalist agenda is within their grasp, part of their confidence is because these groups don t have to rely on just trump alone. they can count on trump s most powerful ally in the fight for christian dominion, the conservative majority of on the united states supreme court. just this week we heard supreme court justice samuel alito tell a progressive activist that he believes we need to return america to a place of godliness. as elizabeth and lisa write in a new analysis for the new york time, while justice alito is hardly openly championing these views, he is embracing language and symbolism that line up with a much broader movement pushing back against the declining power of christianity as a majority religion in america. the movement s rise has been evident across the country since mr. trump lost re-election in 2020. justice alito and his fellow conservative justices have already delivered for christian right with their dobbs decision, striking down roe v. wade, and soon they will have a chance to do so again. the supreme court is about to rule on two major cases of considerable significance to the christian right. one will determine whether access to the most common form of abortion in this country is significantly restricted or not and another will determine whether doctors in emergency rooms can deny pregnant women medically necessary abortions. how the court rules on these issues could tell us just how much power the christian nationalist movement has gained in this country and how close they are to victory. joining me now are lisa, the national political correspondent for the new york times , she is also the author of the fall of roe: the rise of new america, and with me is mark joseph stern, senior writer who covers the courts and law at slater mag sooeven. thank you both for joining me. lisa, let me start with the piece you have out today in the times. an array of conservative, including anti-abortion activists, church leader, and conservative state legislators has openly embraced the idea that american democracy needs to be grounded in christian values and guarded against the rise of secular culture. i don t think it s an exaggeration to suggest that strain of conservatism now seems to dominate the supreme court as well. do you think that s far off? look, part of what we document in our book, the fall of roe and the rise of a new america, is that latter part of the title, the rise of a new america. what that is about is the radicalization of conservative christians. and we ve seen some of that cooling out of these tapes from the court, but you know, i wanted to draw your viewers attention to another story today, which was that the southern baptist convention, which represents the largest protestant denomination in the country, 13 million church goer, came out and said they oppose ivf. this is a fairly radical statement for that group, and we re seeing this return to these christian conservative cultural values from the churches all the way up to alito s statements at the court. so i do think what we re watching is this shift in american power. we don t know where it s going to go, but we have a template for success for this movement, and that, of course, is the fall of roe. and how that network of conservative christian activists and lawyers were able to take down that legal precedent may be a way that they can then move on to tackle these other things they are opposed to like, as we learned today, ivf. yeah, i mean, i do when we talk about shifting the window, moving the goal post on the field, it feels like the activists on the far right are signalling to the alitos of the world, this is where we re at, see if you get here. mark, i want to talk about alito s evolution here, because he wasn t always either this explicit or radicalized when he joined the court. can you talk about his progression to where he is now? yeah, i think a crude but accurate term to describe alito is maga pilled. during donald trump s rise and presidency, alito really let his christian nationalist flag fly and xan to embrace not only the rhetoric but also the substance of this far right christian supremacy and this idea that christianity is rooted in the constitution, that we are a christian nation, and that courts have some kind of obligation to protect and, indeed, elevate christianity above not just other religions but above secular society. and he went on a little bit of a talking tour earlier this decade where he decried the new moral code of secularism that promoted reproductive freedom and lgbtq equality and said that it was an existential threat to christianity. and all of this is reflected very much in his decisions, decisions like one a few years ago where he tried to let pharmacists deny plan b to patients to whom it was prescribed. not, you know, any kind of actual abortion drug but just plan b. and decisions like hobby lobby where he s allowed corporations to restrict employee s access to birth control. and these abortion cases, most notably dobbs as lisa documented, sam alito was always going to be the man to write that opinion overruling roe v. wade. in the coming days and weeks, we re going to get these decisions on abortion, especially involving the abortion pill. and i think alito is quite likely to stick his neck out in that decision and write about how he believes medication abortion is unlawful under existing federal law, under the comstock act of 1873. this is a radicalized justice, very much maximizing his impact by staking out the positions that activists in the grassroots want him to take, legitimizing them and shifting the window and eventually, he hope, transforming them into the law of the land. yeah, i mean, it s quite obvious that the dna of the christian conservative warrior class has imprinted itself upon the supreme court, but lisa, when we talk about the relationship in politics between, for example, donald trump and his pro-maga coalition and the conservative christian warrior class, i wond every if trumpism hasn t imprinted on them. i m thinking about those two pieces of sound where donald trump is in a church, a big church, and the call and response is the word bs. it s a family program, so i m not going to say the actual word. and rudy giuliani is calling taney willis, the d.a. the fulton county, one of the most vulgar things you can call a woman, with distinct racist undertones. this seems to be a new brand of, i guess, christianity, if you want to call it that, in the age of trump. yeah, look, the church has changed politics. but politics has changed the church too. and church, especially conservative evangelical and catholic church, have grown so much more political. as we show in our book the fall of roe, they made this deal with president trump. he promised them in 2016 in iowa christianity will have power, and conservative christians jumped on the trump train, and it ended up being a bullet train for them. they got three justices on the supreme court, and the deal was set. and now they ve been with him for eight years, and it doesn t for conservative christians, they re with him. he can moderate his tone on abortion, say he wouldn t sign a 15-week federal ban, and they re still probably going to stick with him. they are fully bought in and part of this maga movement, and the two are operating together. now, you know, donald trump is in a different position, because the politics of abortion have changed so radically. he senses the toxicity there, which is why you ve seen him come out and say it should be returned to the state, that he supports exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother, so that dance has gotten more complicated for him politically, but there s not a sense that he s worried about losing this group that s really become a central core of his movement and his base of support. well, yeah, and i i mean, one wonder where is the guardrails are in any of it. i mean, the republican party has effectively pledged fealty to everything trump represents, christian warrior class and all, and then on the supreme court, mark, how much of a counterweight is someone like john roberts of brett kavanaugh, does the attempt at counterweighing happen on the supreme court? they are a very feeble counterweight when they choose to be one at all. all three of trump s appointees generally vote in lock step with what the republican party wants. trump has, of course, taken over the party, so it is very much his court. and i think it s really disturbing, especially, to look at some of these decisions that do involve extreme circumstances of tragic medical mishaps where wrim in dire of need of abortion, right, this is one of the big cases this term. states are saying these women cannot get abortions that they have to get sepsis, they have to begin hemorrhaging, they have to be dying before they can get abortions. well, republican politicians lined up to agree with those laws and to support those laws of the supreme court you had a ton of republican state attorneys general and republican governors lining up to say we do think woman should be forced to the brink of death before they can get emergency abortions. i think the supreme court will likely agree with them and continue to force these women into these horrible circumstances. and trump is savvy enough not to say anything at it, because he knows he s got his foot soldiers in the judiciary doing the work for him. he s got his guys on the bench who are ready to uphold the most draconian abortion bans imaginable, and he doesn t have to say anything. and just by remaining silent and not speaking out and condemning these ban, he knows he can keep the christian right very much on his side. and that is the whole genius of the strategy behind capturing the courts. you get these justices and judges on the bench for decades, they will do your bidding, they will uphold your extreme law, they will uphold your draconian policies, and most voter, unfortunately, don t draw those lines between the judges and the presidents that appointed them and the parties those presidents belong to, so they get away with this stuff. that s the story of trumpism in the judiciary. a story where there s no accountability. lisa and mark joseph stern, thank you for your time tonight. coming up, the gaslighting continues as republicans vote to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. but first, new secret recordings have given us insight into the real thoughts of samuel alito and his wife ma that are ann. i m going to speak to the neighbor at the center of a verbal altercations with the alitos outside her home and made the story about her flags a national scandal. that s next. t her flags national scandal that s next. children are the greatest joy and our best hope for a better future. friends, they are the future. but did you know that millions of kids right here in our own backyard are facing hunger every day without healthy food? it s harder to grow, to thrive, to feel their best. the impact when children don t have enough to eat is tremendous because 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show that you re helping kids build a brighter future for themselves. thank you. families are struggling to make ends meet. these are hard times, but together we can help connect america s kids with meals. so please call now or go online to give. thank you. her uncle s unhappy. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. after the new york times reported that two flags associated with the january 6th insurrection had flown at the homes of supreme court justice samuel alito, the justice defended himself in a letter by putting the blame squarely on his wife, martha-ann alito. i was not familiar with the appeal to heaven flag when my wife flew it. i was not aware of any connection between the historic flag and the stop the steal movement and neither was my wife. she did not fly it to associate herself with that or any other group. but audio of martha-ann alito released this week by undercover progressive activist lauren windsor paints a decidedly different picture of mrs. alito s flag collection and why she flew them. you know what i want. i want a sacred heart of jesus flag, because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. exactly. and he s like, oh, please don t put up flag. i said, i won t do it, because i m deferring to you. but when you are free of this nonsense, i m putting it up, and i m going to send them a message every day. maybe every week i ll be changing the flags. they ll be all kinds. i made a flag in my head. this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag. it s white and has yellow and orange flames around it. and in the mid sl the word vergagna. in italian it means shame. joining me now is emily, the former neighbor of supreme court justice samuel alito. emily, thank you for joining us tonight. i m eager to hear your reaction to this audio that was released. and we played that specific clip there because it really sounds like mrs. alito is intentional when she flies these flags and that there is absolutely a political point of view she is trying to communicate. what did you make of that audio? absolutely. well, fist of all, thank you so much for having me tonight. it s a pleasure to be here. and to hear her talk about the flags in that way just solidifies what we all know is that they re meant to display a particular message. she mentions the being upset by the pride flag and wanting to fly a sacred heart of jesus flag. well, that flag specifically means anti-lgbtq, anti-pride, so it s very clear what she s doing with the flag. and that just proves us all right that in his statement he s lying where he says we didn t have any reasoning behind it. we don t know what it mean, et cetera. yeah, well, she wasn t trying to be part of a movement or group. i think that that s definitely questionable given fact that she s absolutely flying these flags in response to certain groups. yes, yes. emily, i got to ask you, because she s so animated when she talks about this flag she d like to make that says vergogna, which means shame in italian, it brought back to mind your account of the alitos, according to the new york times , when mrs. alito confronted you, you said something like how dare you behave this way. you ve been harassing us over signs. you represent the highest court in the land. shame on you. the concept of shame really seems to animate her, and i wonder if you could talk more about your interaction with her when the word shame and the concept of shame was discussed. yes. well, that so that interaction, the one that happened on february 15th, the one that they re using as an excuse for why they flew the upside down american flag, which we know doesn t make sense because the flag was up weeks before that. what do i make of it? it s just it was such an intense interaction, and it was about the third time that this has happened, each time escalating more and more. and yeah, i meant it, shame on you for behaving this way. because you do represent the highest court in the land. and that was more intended towards him who was there as well and did not step in. can you talk a little bit about the relationship between the alitos, as you saw it. i mean, he was present for some of these interactions, if you want to call that, and i was there s part of the undercover interview or the undercover audio that we heard where martha-ann alito talks about her plan for gaining seeking justice for all that has befallen her and her husband. let s take a listen to that sound. it s okay because if they come back to me, i ll get them. i m going to be liberated, and i m going to get them. what do you mean by get them? there s a five-year defamation statute of limitations. i don t know who you mean. the media. so martha-ann alito has a plan here. she s mapped it out, five-year statute of limitations for defamation. the question is, is that justice alito s plan? and that begs the question, what is the relationship between these two people, to you think what she says is tacitly endorsed by him, or is that overestimating, you know, her import in terms of a family strategy? yes. you know, i don t think it s for me or anybody else to say that or to pass any judgement on their relationship. all i witnessed was her, you know, behaving in that way and him not stepping in. and what i really just want to point out is that there s no way that he didn t know those flags were flying at his house. and in those same recordings, in his own words he is unable to be impartial. he says that there are two sides and one side must win and he s basically saying that he sits on one side and he says that he can t negotiate with the other side. he can t split the difference, as he put it. and that is a giant red flag. and at this point, we ve moved past the idea of him just recusing and we ve reached the point in the general consensus that it must be removal at this point. i think we re a ways from that, but i do, i mean, i have to ask you, because this is a woman who verbally there were verbal confrontations, i believe she spat at your car at one point. yeah. there s a point in this audio where she says i m german from germany, my heritage is german, you come after me, i m going to give it back to you. in the context of these interactions with her, how did you hear that part of the audio? i think as most people who heard it it was absolutely chilling. and terrifying that people in such a high position of power are saying such threatening and scary things. now, i can t presume to know what she meant by that, but i think a lot of people are assuming kind of the same things. and none of it is good. and we really need to do something to hold this court accountable. this is mostly about his inability to be impartial, and that is his bare minimum job description, and he has said on tape that he can t do that. emily baden, at the center of a national controversy, really appreciate you taking the time to join us tonight. thank you. thank you so much. thank you. still to come this evening, a response to the story we did last night about an apparently coordinated effort to spin a negative story about president biden across a vast network of local tv stations. stick around to hear what the network has to say for itself on that. plus, former obama advisor dan pfeiffer has thoughts on how to take on republicans like house speak mike johnson when they try to rewrite reality. that s next. they try to rewrite reality. that s next. you know, these kids grow so fast, cherish every little moment you get with them. tyler, he s ten, and little dayrl, he s 12. being a single dad, it is hard. really hard. i ve been there since day one. i know how it is, you know, not to have nothing. i don t really get paid much. there s been times i ve went hungry, made sure they ate. there ain t a thing i wouldn t do for em. millions of children are facing hunger. rising food prices are making it tougher to put food on the table. call or go online right now to join feeding america with your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. together, thanks to a nationwide network of food banks, dedicated volunteers and the monthly support of people like you. we can fill plates with nutritious food for kids facing hunger this summer. at least now i know i got to, you know, help if i need it. one in five kids face hunger in america and food costs are rising. we are getting closer to the day when no one in america faces hunger. but we can t do it without you. call or go online now. visit helpfeedingamerica.org and give $19 a month. just $0.63 a day. 98% of donations go directly to help millions of children facing hunger from coast to coast and in your own community. and when you use your credit card, you ll receive this exclusive canvas grocery bag to show you re a part of a movement working together to ensure that everyone has the food and resources we all need to thrive. if you re hungry, you know, if they got it feed you. people just got to realize, you know, places like this do exist, they will help you. please call now or make your monthly donation at helpfeedingamerica.org. working together, we can end hunger in america. we re trying to save the planet with nuggets. helpfeedingamerica.org. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. it s a weird week for republicans to claim that the justice system has been weaponized against them, given the fact that president biden s own son was convicted yesterday of three gun felony charges brought by the federal government in a case that was heard by a trump-appointed judge and decided upon by a jury of biden s peers, but that didn t stop them. this afternoon house republicans fanned the flame of a weaponized government conspiracy by voting to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. the alleged reason for the contempt vote was the justice department s refusal to comply with a congressional subpoena to hand over audio tapes of an interview president biden did with special counsel robert hur. now, to be clear, the justice department has already released a full transcript of that interview, and officials argue that releasing the audio could endanger future investigations. but refusing to comply with a congressional subpoena, hmm, republicans managed to be outraged about that despite the fact that multiple republicans, including congressman jim jordan, who is leading the fight here against merrick garland, multiple republicans have literally defied congressional subpoenas themselves. when speaker of the house mike johnson was asked about that hypocrisy today, this was his response. you talk about apples to oranges, there couldn t be a more clear contrast between that and what we re talking about here. hmm, joining me now is dan pfeiffer, former senior advisor to president obama and cohost of pod save america. thank you for being here. i don t know, is it an apples to oranges comparison or an apples to apples comparison. it seems pretty apples to apples to me. you have members of congress, someone refusing to comply with a subpoena from congress, so yeah, it s apples to apples. the reality is that the headline merrick garland held in contempt of congress is a big, juicy headline for republicans to make hay over. and i wonder how you think democrats and people interested in preserving, i don t know, some shred of democracy, can answer that with a fairly nuanced discussion about subpoenas and why the hur audio would not make sense for future prosecutions. i don t think we have to get into the details of that. that s the conversation they want us to have. the conversation they don t want to have is why republican plans would do nothing to lower prices or higher wages. what they are planning on doing is how they can pass a tax cut for corporations and the wealthy. it will add $3 trillion to the deficit. they re trying to distract from the things that matter to people and their own popular agenda. we sdroebt to play that game as democrats. let me follow up on that, that gets to the central question of this entire campaign as it concerns joe biden, which is how much should he be talking about the sort of institutional threats posed by donald trump, institutional threats to our system of justice, to our democracy, to the voting system, and how much should he talk about, what you say, the bread and butter issue, the economy, inflation, et cetera, you seem to be landing quite clearly in camp b, don t focus on the institutional threats, is that fair? there s no such thing as a single-issue campaign for president. right. it s about a lot. now, it is very clear that most voters by pretty large margins say the economy and inflation are the single most important issue that s going to decide their vote. it s also true that three quarters of voters say that the they are unhappy with the economy and that donald trump has a big advantage on the economy. we have to narrow that gap. that doesn t mean we shouldn t talk about abortion and freedom and the threats that donald trump has. because what ties together donald trump s positions where he wants to cut social security, medicare, cut taxes for the wealthy, repeal the affordable care act, repeal abortion, is maga extremism. that s how i think we should frame it. i do wonder where you think the most movable voters are, right? because the economic stuff is plain to see. it s not a mystery, right? inflation is coming down. the joblessness rate, all of it, and it hasn t sunk in. whereas, i m not necessarily arguing for this, but the polling that we got, i think it was this week, an ap/norc poll, approval of donald trump s conviction nationwide, 15% of republicans approve of his conviction. those seem like the ghost of nikki haley s supporters. and i wonder if you think, you know, given freshness of this story and the fact that people are responding to it, whether there s to blunt about it, gold in them there hills for the democrats and the biden campaign. oh, sure. this is the anti-donald trump coalition is the biggest political coalition in america. but it s very diverse, right? you have voters who are biden voters who are upset about the economy. you have people who are biden voters who are upset about what s happening in gaza. you have trump voter who is may be upset former trump voters. so you have a lot of messages to a lot of people. what we know is there is a sufficient group of people who are deeply concerned about the idea i know this sounds crazy but deeply concerned idea that we should not have a convicted felon as president of the united states. i hope the president takes advantage of this during the debate in two weeks and brings it up. we have to make a full throated, proud, unafraid case against donald trump. that s going to talk about raising prices and cutting taxes for rich people, the threat he poses to freedoms like abortion, contraception, and the threat he poses to all of our freedoms because of the way he wants to govern what he did to try to pull the wool over voter s eyes in 2016 whshgs he got caught for and convicted for, tells a story about the kind of president donald trump would be and we shouldn t shy away from that. given the things we talk about, you know donald trump s going to bring up, well, we think he would bring up hunter biden. there s another trial in california, i believe, in september. should biden be talking about that? playbook suggests this is an opportunity to show empathy and connect with people who have faced hardship that in their own lives and families. what do you think about that? well, this is obviously deeply personal and deeply painful situation for the president, right? he had this is it s obvious every time he s ever been forced to talk about it. in all of the reporting you read, this is something that s very hard for him, of course it is. all this tragedy in his family, dealing with addiction, having to witness that. there s no question donald trump s going to bring it up in the debate. he did it in 2020 to try to rattle biden s case. i think if he can talk about this from the perspective of a father who loves his son, much like the statement that he and the first lady put out after the conviction, that hug he gave his son afterwards that he returned home to give, to show that side of joe biden, i think that is powerful. because the essential truth of joe biden is that he is a deeply empathetic person who is running for president because he cares about everyone else. and he can show that in that moment if that comes. and i think that s the way to do it and the way i think he would do it. i mean, his empathy, i think, does distinguish him from the other person who s going to be across the stage from him. dan pfeiffer, my friend, thank you for making the time tonight, buddy. thank you. coming up, some really good news this week. violent crime is way, way down across the country, but you couldn t be faulted for believing the very opposite, especially if you like watching certain local news stations. we re going to have more on that right after the break. on that right after the break. whoa! how d you get your teeth so white? you gotta use the right toothpaste! dr. c?! not all toothpastes whiten the same. crest 3d white removes 100% more stains for a noticeably whiter smile. new personal best. crest. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you d like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga ed gutters. an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter s technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. so the president wraps his remarks on crime without a single mention of the growing immigrant crime crisis happening in this country right now. you re seeing since joe biden took office crime skyrocket. wouldn t we love to have a statistic where crime is down 67%? ours is only going in one direction. if you listen to donald trump or conservative politicians and conservative media like fox news, you probably think we are in the middle of a massive crime wave. we are not. this week we got new fbi crime statistics showing that in the fist quarter of this year, crime is yet again down across the board. overall violent crime down 15% from last year. murders down 26%. by every national metric, crime is down. regardless of the facts here, fox is still going big on crime. the organization media matters counted 304 reports about crime on fox in just the first two months of this year alone. the last time the fbi released crime data, back in march, crime data that again showed another drop in crime across the board, fox gave that data approximately two minutes of air time in the first two weeks after the data came out. fox only mentioned the declining crime rate seven times in those two week, and one of those mentions was this one. new data from the fbi claims that the u.s. crime rate is dropping. let s look at this graph while i stab you. given how much elected republicans and national conservative media are pushing the narrative of a staggering crime wave despite the facts, it sort of makes sense that republicans believe there is a rise in crime when really there isn t. but the thing is, it s not just republicans who believe that. recent polling from gallup shows that 77% of all americans believe there is more crime in the u.s. today than there was a year ago. despite, again, the opposite being true. crime went down this year and crime went down the year before. we are in the opposite of a crime wave. so what gives? why do so many americans think that crime is up? well, there are probably a lot of reasons, but there is one reason that does not get enough attention, local news. in 2019, one of seattle s local tv news stations, komo news, put out this documentary entitled seattle is dying. it depicts seattle as a city in decline because of rampant crime and homelessness. the seattle times newspaper was quick to refute the documentary s assertion that seattle was dying, pointing out that both property crime and violent crime have been dropping in seattle for decades, and komo news isn t some independent, whacky outlet, it is part of the sinclair broadcast network, a network of nearly 200 local tv stations. as the washington post put it, sinclair s recipe for tv news is crime, homelessness, and illegal drugs. journalist anne nelson told the washington post , sinclair plays up crime stories in a way that is disproportionate to their statistical presence. or as david told the post, it s a fox news wannabe. that s their model a political tool rather than a journalistic platform. but unlike what people hear from fox news or donald trump, viewers may not necessarily have their radars up when it comes to information they are getting from the local news stations that give them the weather. s stations that give them the weather sinclair broadcast group. a story about how dozens of their anchors from across the country all read the exact same script and this one was pt questioning president biden s mental fitness. sinclair has since given us their response. we are going to get to that, coming up next. . millions of children are fighting to survive due to inequality, conflict, poverty and the climate crisis. save the children® is working alongside communities to provide a better life for children. and there s a way you can help. please call or go online to give just $10 a month. only $0.33 a day. we urgently need 1000 new monthly donors in the next 30 days to help the children we support around the world. you can help provide food, medicine, care and protection, plus so much more that a child needs by calling right now and giving just $10 a month. all we need are 1000 monthly donors in the next 30 days. please call or go online now with your monthly gift of just $10. thanks to generous government grants, every dollar you give can have up to ten times the impact. and when you call with your credit card, we will send you this save the children® tote bag as a thank you for your support. your small monthly donation of just $10 could be the reason a child in crisis survives. please call or go online to hungerstopsnow.org to help save lives today. we have some new developments in a story we covered last night. the newsletters public notice and popular information first brought to attention anchors at dozens of local tv news stations who have been reading the same controversial script about president joe biden based on a widely criticized wall street journal article. have a listen. the wall street journal calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. as national correspondent matt galka tells us, the issue could be an election decider. the issue could be an election decider. the stations have one thing in common. they are owned by the conservative leading sinclair broadcast group and tonight we have a statement from sinclair denying wrongdoing or bias. here is a quote. the allegation sinclair is deceiving its audience are spreading misinformation is outrageous. our goal is to buy the accurate and timely coverage. any insinuation otherwise is unfounded and undermines the integrity and hard work of our teams. joining me now is the founder and author of the popular information newsletter. he is one of two reporters who broke the story. thank you for joining me. let me first get your response to sinclair s response. well, i think it was interesting that they ignored really the key issue, which is that they are amplifying and requiring dozens of local, trusted local news broadcasts, to amplify this very shoddy story by the wall street journal questioning biden s mental fitness based on really kevin mccarthy, the only on the record source. so they did not really address that. i think they are unhappy with the fact their tactics are being exposed. this is a problem they have had in the past of sending these very biased scripts to all of their affiliates and having them read them verbatim. can you talk about when you say they were forced to read these. sinclair as part of its defense says giving out scripts is common practice to affiliates and basically there is nothing to see here. from your reporting, what you understand about the pressure, if any, these local anchors are given to read this stuff verbatim? this is been well-established that sinclair, which has 186 affiliates it owns or controls, sends must runs segments that are produced out of their national office. actually after trump was elected in 2016 they hired one of his spokespeople, boris epshteyn as their national correspondent and then would have him do commentary which they required all of these stations to run. so it is true, there are affiliates that have relationships with different services. cnn operates one. there are a bunch of different ones. they will send along scripts, but that is something optional for them to do. this is the corporate parent requiring these affiliates which have all sorts of branding, abc, nbc, everybody, locks, and really pushing very hard right content in a way that is not transparent. the owner of sinclair broadcasting is a gentleman named david smith. he also purchased the baltimore sun not that long ago and i want to read for viewers who are unfamiliar with what has happened. the union representing the newspaper sternal essay monday that the articles do not meet standards. including a one-sided story about immigration policies and an op-ed by the co-owner likening the transgender movement to a cancer. in addition journalists say stories under their names have been changed without their permission and they have been reusing reporting from one of the 185 local tv stations owned by the sinclair broadcast group. this is a feedback loop, it sounds like. what do you know if the editorial practices under david smith? i think he has established himself as a right-wing operative. he has given hundreds of thousands of dollars to right- wing groups and famously he met with donald trump in 2016. jared kushner helped cut a deal where they would get access in exchange for not fact checking. david smith himself said we are here to deliver your message, so it is a very partisan operator, but he is really pulling the strings behind local affiliate neck works affiliate networks that unfortunately viewers may not know what is going on. over 185 tv stations, plus the baltimore sun. judd legum, thanks for your time. that is our show for tonight. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o donnell. . good evening, alex. sheldon whitehouse is joining us to talk about the supreme court. alex, i was fascinated to hear your interview with the alito neighbor

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Transcripts For MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes 20240613



the oklahoma justices ruling said the lingering impact of the massacre does not fall within the scope of our state public nuisance statute and they rule the state can continue to profit from tulsa massacre related tourism without compensating survivors. today s dismissal marks an end to the quest to see justice in their life time, something i got to speak to ms. fletcher about last year. what does justice look like to you? well, everything is beautiful and rebuilt and restored. you know, we think it is just time now that we have justice on all of that to where we can live all our life. and that is the reidout . all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in day people are saying to themselves, where we better off four years ago or are we better off now and it wasn t even close. the greatest confidence game ever played. voters believe they were better off during trump s term than biden s. we are not better off today than we were four years ago. tonight, from crime to the economy and beyond how a political party led by a criminal is conning america. then you, you are working for a felon. a felon. the maga scandal machine and today s contempt about for the attorney general. and the senate push to do something about the ethics crisis in the supreme court. the highest court in the land should not and could not have the lowest ethical standards. when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. as we approach the first debate of a presidential election season, earlier than normal between joe biden and donald trump, it is clear that trump and the republican pitch to voters is fundamentally a con job. i mean that in the most literal sense. the term comes from so-called confidence man, fixtures in the late 18th and 19th century who swindled the victims with their confidence. right now that all s bravado is the defining feature of donald trump s attempt to win back the oval office. remember, this is the man who tried to destroy our constitutional republic live on national television and who utterly failed in overseeing the one national crisis he had to guide the nation through the pandemic. and yet trump and his surrogates are constantly telling voters to ask themselves a question, are you better off than you were four years ago? are you better off than you were four years ago? i don t think joe biden can run on the question of are you better off than you were four years ago. that is one question he is praying that he never hears. are you better under four years of joe biden were four years of donald trump. you know, people are saying to themselves are we better off four years ago or are we better off now and it wasn t even close. that, by the way, was all from the past week. we have been running a series on all in responding to that question because the events of four years ago were so shocking, unprecedented, and traumatic. i think a lot of people, i would say most people including myself, have blocked it out. again, i get it. i don t want to think about sitting inside trying to homeschool my kids or attending zuma for my dearly departed uncle or the images of packed hospitals and dying saying goodbye to their loved ones on ipads. of course the fact that most people don t want to think too much about 2020 is an enormous advantage for republicans and the trump campaign who are attempting to pull off this con job. their aim is to kind of magically replace her memory. to distract you from the fact that four years ago we were all living in the midst of disaster. tonight the country has reached another sobering milestone in the coronavirus pandemic, surpassing 2 million cases and this warning sign. hospitalizations are surging in many states. we will start our rallies back up now. we had a tremendous run at rallies. i don t think there has been an empty seat. i think one in texas. we are going to arizona. texas and arizona among nine states reporting a jump in hospitalizations, the best indicator of the viruses toll. we are really doing a financial comeback. the jobs numbers are fantastic. 1.5 million people filed front employment last week, almost 43 million since the pandemic began. i think the economy next year will be maybe the best it has ever been. we are already seeing the stock market going up, because you have a lot of smart people betting on exactly what i m saying. a selloff from wall street amid new concerns about the continuing spread of covid-19. the dow plunging more than 1800 points, its biggest drop in three months. a very important time in our country. a lot of things are happening and i think when it all ends up it is going to end up very good for everybody. there is growing concern tonight that restricting restrictions is causing an increase in covid-19 cases. all lives are precious, not just the people infected by covid, but also the people who are being driven to this because of the lockdown. what is happening in some of those places. that shut down. the poverty rate is going up. what are people going to do if they don t have jobs to go to to earn a living in order to take care of their families? that is the main reason. all of these scare tactics, they don t work this time around. they will not work. i should note one week after herman cain made that appearance on fox news, he attended donald trump s indoor rally. a big, indoor rally in the midst of covid in tulsa, oklahoma and by the end of june he was hospitalized with covid and died on july 30 at the age of 74. naturally every time we do one of these segments i find that looking back at four years ago brings a lot of emotion. most people divide recent history into the before times and the after times, myself included. a lot of us feel nostalgia for the before times and that is exactly what donald trump and his allies are using to build their lie about what really happened. to erase our real memories and implant false ones. that is their project and it has been unnervingly effective so far. four years ago in june, 2020 while we were living through the pandemic donald trump s approval rating was 42%. and when a new poll, 47% of americans say they approve of the job that trump did as president. it is not much, but those five points are basically the margin of the entire election and they are accomplishing that through flat out lies about what is actually happening. take a listen to missouri senator josh hawley doing this today. he s going to run on his record from four years ago versus biden right now. gas under president biden, up 55%. groceries, up 40%. wages down 3%. that is the campaign. that is before we get to crime, before we get to the border. sorry, josh hawley. wages are up. average hourly earnings are actually up 17% from may, 2020 two 2024 in nominal terms, like groceries and stuff. wages have also outpaced inflation for the past 13 months as the washington post pointed out today. crime is way down. look at what has happened with the homicide rate. in 2020 when donald trump was president, he ushered in under his presidency the largest ever one year jump, spiking 30%. by 2023 the homicide rate had tumbled 19% to 5.3 per 100,000 people. new data shows the rate continues to drop dramatically, down another 20 another 26% in the first quarter from the same time period last year. gas prices, are, i will admit, overall higher than they were in the summer of 2020. why were they low then? no one was traveling anywhere. okay? that is why there were cheap gas prices. refrigerator trucks full of cadavers, yeah, the gas prices were low. and they spiked up in the early part of the biden administration with the war in ukraine, but they have been trending in the right direction and continue to fall even as the summer travel season heats up. grocery prices are coming down. not just with inflation which cooled to 3.3% today, but retailers are actually slashing prices on thousands of islands. of items. again, they spiked during the pandemic like they did everywhere in the world, but they are on the right trajectory now and all of this is happening under the incumbent, joe biden. and we are not losing thousands of americans per day to a deadly pandemic. we do not live in a nation in the throes of constant disorder. this time four years ago we were living through the televised murder of george lloyd and the protestant police response that followed while then president trump called for sending in troops. across the country was started as peaceful gatherings protesting the death of george floyd evolved into destruction. from new york, where police and protesters squared off in the streets, to portland where the mayor issued a state of emergency and a city curfew. the nation erupted into scenes of chaos. violence. and widespread destruction into the early morning hours. in some of the nation s biggest cities, the night spiraled out of control early. we had to run rubber bullets. my cameraman has been hit. we have also seen tear gas being used. here we go again. this is exactly what it looks like. oh. whoa. can you hear us? are you okay? reporter: we are surrounded by the police and you saw the way that they dealt with my cameraman. we don t know who they are targeting at the moment. i said you have to dominate the streets. you can t let that happen and we are doing it with compassion, if you think about it. we are dominating the street with compassion. all that happens under the watch of president donald trump. we cannot say or hear that and if he returns to power i am telling you it is a safe bet that we will return to trauma and chaos. she is a democratic strategist who served as an advisor for the 2020 campaign. they both join me now. doug, i wanted to talk to you because in some ways history and recent history is part of what is being contested in this campaign. the legacy of the first trump year, trump term, and particularly 2020, the four years ago in the famous formulation, as a historian and historian and presidential elections, how do you see it? i think january 6 is such a seminal event and for the days after it seemed like trump was toast. everybody was furious that insurrectionists, but lo and behold suddenly mitch mcconnell came back to trump and lindsey graham and they sort of built this coalition and what is it? it is really anti-federal government. that is what trump represents now. that is why we are seeing the american flag hung upside down by conservative justices. and biden is trying to be part of a tradition, presidents club, of all of the other presidents. you saw on june 6, where ronald reagan is. by then saying i represent all of this and trump is sort of the anti-federal government, anger over covid. and that people still feel that their lives became topsy-turvy and they are going to punish whoever the incumbent is. so it is hard for biden to get traction even though as you said, numbers on the economy are good. we are much better off. he has shown great leadership, but communicating that to the people when there is this much frenzy on social media and hatred toward the federal government, it is an uphill battle for biden to get reelected. i was thinking about 2010, the elections in which of course democrats lost. the tea party uprising. a lot of that was something similar was happening. which is people were frustrated with the aftermath of the financial crisis ushered in by the republican party. democrats were the incumbent party and they took it out against the democrats and it was sort of classic like we don t like the status quo because things are bad and they were bad, but the reason they were bad is because what had been passed on. there is something similar here where the things people don t like him a totally understandably, the shocks that came out of covid were not the doing of joe biden. subsequent administrations had to fix that and people still feel frustrated with the pace that is happening. it s interesting that you bring up what happened in 2010 because i think of the history of the democratic party. to clean up the miss of the republican party and as democrats clean up the miss they have to message against republicans who are acting as if they want the party that let estate into it. four years ago donald trump was telling people to drink leach to cure covid while he was having superspreader events. four years ago people were in their homes watching what you just did in a montage, but we were watching that every day for 24 hours, not knowing when we would see our loved ones and then trying to figure out who we were going to vote for when it comes to the president to get us out of this. you know, policy for people to feel it in their pocket books takes a very long time and while you mentioned some great reports for the biden administration, even the global economic report this week that said the global economy is strong because the u.s. economy is getting strong, but people are not feeling that yet. that is not the fault of president biden. that is the unregulated corporations that republicans are blocking anything democrats want to do around this. this debate coming up, president biden will have to figure out how to message that as well as the surrogates and people talking about this between now and election day so people understand how they are not feeling this, even though these historic numbers are bringing us back to a place that the american people really want to be. you know, doug, i think that before times nostalgia is powerful and i think there is another thing in play here and i would like to get your thoughts on it. my view of trump was always that this is a person who is so unsuited to the job above all else that if and when a crisis comes it will be the worst possible response and then covid happened and it was borne out. i think a lot of people think 2020 is a mulligan. it was a meteor that hit earth and they sort of blocked out the degree of insanity in the crisis management that happened that year and i wonder if you think it is possible to remind them or people are so resistant to thinking about it. i think you can and it is going to be imperative that joe biden reminds people, particularly during the upcoming debate with trump. trump has gone through so many legal jeopardy moments and years have gone by and we are running it on television all the time and you have the 34 felony conventions convictions. even when that happens some democrats were saying don t rub it in trump s base. of course you have to rub it in his face. you have to call him a felon. biden has struggled i think with messaging in the sense of this economy that has been building. he called it a transitory pain we were having at one point and then it was bidenomics. instead they have to lay out that our economy is doing well. yes, i feel your pain at milk, groceries, gas, but he has to be the happy warrior like fdr. at times he does that. i felt that when he was in france, talking about freedom and democracy, but other times he gets in a bit of a defensive crouch. you can t be gerald ford with whip inflation now buttons. you can t be jimmy carter, the malaise or crisis of confidence. presidents get reelected with a sense of victory and optimism and better times are yet to come and obama when he ran, he had the killing of osama bin laden which gave him the foreign policy credential that people clearly understood. the revenge of the 9/11 disaster. the sort of past versus future obviously you have two individuals, one is who is 78 and the other is 81. in some ways donald trump is the recent past and i do wonder if because the past four years have been so dramatic and disruptive, people want to go back in time and that is part of the allure. i think people want to go back in time when there was what they felt was more certainty. with covid there was such uncertainty. the racial unrest and then we saw january 6. hindsight is 2020 and for some reason some people as though they people feel as though they were better under donald trump. that wasn t the case. i think we have to make sure that president biden, and i hope his campaign is listening, that he simplifies his message. he has always been the comforter right next to president obama. be that president and then talk about the ways not only has it gotten folks out of this, but he will continue to do so if they give him four more years. along with a congress and senate to keep doing this work. alencia johnson and doug brinkley, thank you both. coming up, the hunter biden narrative backfires on republicans and now they are going after the attorney general instead. that is next. next. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. for moderate to severe crohn s disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. 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have the transcript. today they voted to hold the attorney general in contempt. congressman joe neguse of colorado is assistant democratic leader and member of the judiciary committee and joins me now. congressman, what was this all about? good evening and good to be with you, chris. unfortunately it is a sad state of affairs in washington, d.c. as extreme house republicans have once again found a way to weaponize what are very constitutional and serious tools that the congress has at its disposal. in this case, as you articulated, they pursued a baseless contempt resolution against the attorney general. by way of background as many of your viewers already know, the attorney general fully complied with the requests made by the congress. the department of justice produced over 90,000 pages of documents with respect to this inquiry. more by the way, chris, then the entire department of justice provided during the course of the trump administration and also produced the transcript itself of the president s conversation with the special counsel. the contextual reasons house republicans offered for purposes of the audio were clearly a smokescreen for what was a political exercise. they wanted audiotapes to use them for a campaign commercial and the attorney general cited a number of reasons why ultimately that tape could not be provided. the president invoked executive privilege and republicans in the house of course know that to be the case, but they proceeded anyway. unfortunately i think it is shameful and disgraceful and we will have to see what comes next in the clown show that they have perpetrated on the american people right now. you know, two things i want to note. the republican who voted against it said as a former prosecutor i cannot in good conscience support a position to score political points. the american people expect congress to work for them and solve policy problems. enough is enough. second of all i want to make sure that i have the events right. merrick garland appoints a special counsel to investigate the president. the man that he appoints is a republican who is a donald trump appointee in the justice department. this individual asks for an interview which the president voluntarily complies with i think for nine hours despite the fact that donald trump never gave an interview to robert mueller. he then uses parts of that interview to take political shots at him in the opening introduction. they release the transcript and all of this is deemed, what? partisan by the republicans? how far can you possibly go? the answer is nowhere. there is nothing you can do. that is the question and it is an open question. you articulated the timeline well. i would offer two amendments. one, this attorney general produced as you know the special counsel report in full, unredacted. very different compared to attorney general bill burr. i remember as we dealt with subterfuge with respect to the special counsel investigation and in this case the special counsel testified in front of my committee, as did the attorney general as recently as last week. this is a farce. house republicans know that. it is a way for them to up skate their lack of days for them to obfuscate their lack of an agenda. they prefer to spend time on these political games, which is unfortunate. it is not a coincidence the timing between hunter biden s conviction yesterday and this. this is the new york times reporting. mister trump who aggressively attacked hunter biden in the 2020 election has changed his mind about doing so now. trump said republicans needed to be careful not to go overboard because it could elicit sympathy and make people view the president as a caring father. so they spend years chasing this guy to the ends of the earth. they successfully, let s be clear, they basically successfully control this investigation. the prosecution happens and now it is like we ve got to light a new fire because that one has burned out. look, in their view the circus must continue. their message is not resonating with the american people, so as a result they will continue pursuing political retribution at every turn and of course this is not the first time. they pursued seven or eight different impeachment resolutions at various points in the last 18 months against a variety of cabinet officials. they impeached secretary mayorkas. that was dispensed in the senate without a trial. the attempted impeachment of president biden failed. so i have no doubt that unfortunately these games are going to continue for some time. hope springs eternal that perhaps some in the republican caucus will do what representative joyce did today and ultimately speak truth to power and do the right thing and join us in getting back to the business of the house. congressman joe neguse, thank you for your time. up next, what happened in the senate when the democrats tried to introduce ethics to the supreme court. next. . my mental health was better. but 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same rules that guide members of congress and federal employees. in the senate today democrats ask for unanimous consent to pass a binding ethics package for the court. it was blocked by the top republican on the senate judiciary committee, senator lindsey graham. joining me now is senator jeff merkley, one of several democrats who took to the senate floor arguing why the ethics package should pass. senator, it is good to have you on. first, tell me what the act fix what the ethics package, what would it do? it is so straightforward, chris. it says they would have to have a binding code of ethics at least as strong as the house or senate has. what applies to the executive branch, what applies to other judges, what applies to members of the house and senate applies to the supremes as well. that is like what congressman raskin and ocasio- cortez were talking about. you could not do it as a senator. you could not do it as a mid- level engineer at the department of the interior and you could not do it as any other federal judge. chris, it is just phenomenal. think about what this looks like. it is mega yacht trips. indonesia. tuition for family members. luxury rvs. helicopter flights. you name it. $6 million of gifts over the last 20 years. here is the scenario. for an average person hauled into court and somebody sues you and you find out the person suing you has been going on fishing trips to alaska with the judge. would you think you are getting a fair shake? that there is any possibility of justice in that situation? the answer is absolutely not. that is a profoundly corrupt court and that is what we have today. i think, well, i don t know what the logic is but i think republicans say this is all partisan. the reason you are doing this is because you don t like the rulings in the court, you don t like the ideology, so you are trying to attack legitimacy to a road power for purely ideological and partisan reasons. certainly if republicans want this court to have the force that comes with integrity and respect of the american people, then they should be the first to step forward to clean up this miss. it is in fact a miss and certainly i believe that these justices on the right who were trained and selected by the federalist society to deliver power on a plate to corporations in america, are deeply, profoundly warping the constitution. in favor of corporations and against consumers and environmental laws and many other things. this issue of accepting massive gifts from people who have issues before the court, that stands on its own. separate from any dispute one might have. i want to redo something that sam alito said last summer in an interview with the wall street journal to a lawyer and a writer there. he said i know this is a controversial view, but i m willing to say it, he says. no provision in the constitution gives congress the authority to regulate the supreme court, period. what do you think of that? it is called legislation and the constitution does give legislation power to the congress. it gives the ability to put a code of ethics on the executive branch. yes a president can veto it, but we can override that veto. certainly there was a sense of while the constitution said little about what the court system would look like, there were massive decisions made by congress to decide how the judiciary would be structured and run. so absolutely that does not pass any sort of common sense or legal examination. final question and quickly. on the question of having the chief justice come before the senate. he has basically blown off an inquiry from the chair of the judiciary committee who reached out to him. samuel alito has written to say i am not recusing myself. basically they are like, you are not the boss of us and we don t have to listen to anything you say. is that a tolerable equilibrium? it is not, because they are basically saying we have the right to be corrupt and you can t do anything about it and that deeply undermines a key institution in our country in which we need to have a sense of respect. a sense that it delivers the balls and strikes, as justice roberts once said in his confirmation hearings. right now we are getting profound conflict of interest and that is really sad to hear. chris, here is the thing. justice roberts, in running this court, he has to recognize that he is failing in his responsibility to run this court in a fashion which delivers fairness and a sense of integrity to the american people. one jeff merkley, inc. s very much. we will be right back. if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, 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yervoy. a chance to live longer. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that s why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i ve ever seen. it s people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that s why 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trump s closing message railing against pharmaceutical companies and the like and bernie sanders message from the beginning. it has been almost a decade since my brief flirtation with internet immortality. there was even a videogame created out of that. in my defense it had been a very long day covering the new hampshire primary and we were doing my show where we did so many msnbc shows that you re at jds tavern. in that very moment as i was speaking, in my line of sight, howard feynman sitting in a booth about to take a bite from a huge pastrami sandwich. the legendary political journalist was with us at all of those political moments on every primary, convention, everything in between going back more than 20 years. he was a near constant presence on msnbc, sharing reporting and insight from his career spanning four decades and seven presidents. you confess your weak spot up front, but then you turn it into a virtue and make what you hope is a dramatic and winning contest with your opponent. in this case as you say you cannot out flamboyant donald trump. you cannot be more, in many ways, irresponsible than donald trump. howard fineman was more connected in politics than just about any journalist has been. it was a force of nature who knew everybody in washington. i was so saddened to learn that howard died today at the age of 75 after a long battle with cancer. i knew him well. i knew him to be exceedingly clever and exceedingly kind. and howard had this bravado that they don t make anymore. our thoughts are with the family tonight including his son nick, who is a senior producer here at msnbc. we are all really going to miss him. i saw how easily it picked up my hair every time i dried it. it only takes a minute. look at that! the heavy duty cloths are extra thick for amazing trap and lock. even for his hair. wow! and for dust i love my heavy duty duster. the fluffy fibers trap dust on contact up high and all around without having to lift a thing. i m so hooked! 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[ surprised scream ] don t panic. gift easy with etsy. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn t ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue for some. and stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what s yours. abbvie could help you save. it has been 250 days since the october 7th attacks, and an estimated 120 israeli hostages still remain in gaza. president biden, the u.n. security council, and the governments of qatar and egypt are all still pushing for a negotiated ceasefire that would release all the remaining hostages of the fate of that deal remains unclear. 120 hostages have been returned to israel alive that. includes 116 released as part of the brief pause in fighting that happened last november, as well as the four who were rescued in a military operation last weekend that also left nearly 300 palestinians dead, according to the gaza health ministry. since the conflict began, family members of many hostages have urged israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his government to come to a deal for the hostages release. organizing, protesting, meeting with leaders both in iz xrael the u.s., and now one of those groups has written an open letter to american jewish organizations asking their help to press netanyahu to end the war and accept the deal that s on the table, saying israelis are being held hostage, not just our families who are held by hamas in gaza, we are always hostage to bibi s actions. he is risking the lives of our soldiers. he is jeopardizing the lives of our hostages. he is endangering us all. a spokesman for those families a critic of the netanyahu government. multiple members of his family were taken by hamas on october 7th. three of his relatives were released in that initial swap last year, but his uncle remains in captivity where he recently turned 79. and he joins me now. it s really an honor to have you, and i want to thank you for joining us. i want to start just by asking you how your family is doing. how those released in november are coping, how you are coping with your uncle s continued absence. well, thank you for having me first. my family members are trying to cope, but you know, everything is in, like, this static mode because we are still waiting for abraham to come back. if he comes back, nothing can start moving into a phase, so day by day, i guess. this is the way a lot of families, not just my family, of course, a lot of families are feeling this way. and we are waiting for this issue to be resolved, and it s been taking so long. it s amazing. there are sort of two stories i ve heard or two sort of arguments about a ceasefire deal. one is that hamas won t accept one on the terms that israel would find acceptable, and that the head of the military commander in hamas wants to keep the war going. the other is that it s not worth a deal prematurely if it means a cessation of hostilities before eradicating hamas. and as someone who has a family member there and has been organizing, what is your demand, your request, your ask of your government on this negotiation? first and foremost, a ceasefire. first and foremost, a ceasefire. this is elementary. this is like when there was a ceasefire, hostages came back. now, they happen here and there, they are not a strategic solution to the problem of 120 people still kept in captivity. you know, during seven months of military operation israel succeeded in releasing seven hostages alive. this is, you know, a pace of one hostage a month. eight months, even. so 120 hostages would take ten years time. the hostages have no time. the sanitary conditions are nonexistent. the health is deteriorating by the day. physical and mental. and we must find a way to bring them back home as soon as possible. these are not, you know, these are not only young people, these are elderly people, grandfathers and parents and uncles and people that were taken from their beds at 7:00 a.m. on a saturday, you know, in their pajamas and barefoot sometimes, yeah. in the u.s., one of the things that people there has been kind of a joining of the notion of the war and the justness of it and doing it on behalf of the hostages. many people feel that the war is on behalf of the hostages, and people think that those, you know, who are calling for ceasefire are betraying them or forgetting about them. and you wrote this open letter that basically argued the opposite. and so for people that are people of good faith across the spectrum on this very contested issue, i want to hear your argument to them as a family member. sure, sure. first, again, a ceasefire. why? the thing that endangers the hostages the most right now, idf bombing. this has been from october 8th ongoing where my 9-year-old cousin s son was asked during an interview after he has spent 49 days in gaza captivity, he was asked what do you feel most about your grandfather still being there? without hesitation he answered the idf bombing. the idf bombing endangers the hostages, and the idf bombing, actually, we know about 14 hostages that were killed either by direct hit by the idf or, you know, as after an idf attack, the attackers needed to evacuate the space. they killed them, so you know, the military operation endangers the hostages. it got seven hostages out, 14, at least, dead, and this the whole military maneuver is not getting it s not for the hostages at all. it s not helping them. on the contrary, it gets them further and further away from the hostage deal, further and further away from getting united with their loved ones. because we know that the conditions for the hostage exchange or the prisoners exchange or whatever you want to call this, getting them back home is first, ceasefire. and by waging this war from day one, the israel government initiatives of this military operation is only keeping us apart, keeping us further and further apart. at the beginning it was only northern gaza, then it was rafah, and before that it was elsewhere, and we re just getting further and further apart from a solution to this problem, because the solution should start with a ceasefire. this is, you know, logical and basic. a spokesperson for the group of hostage, his uncle held by hamas in gaza. i can t thank you enough for making time for us. we re all thinking about you and your family. thank you very much. and we pray for the safe return of all of the hostages as soon as possible. this is a humanitarian issue. this is not some political issue, and people trying to make this a political issue, especially, the government trying to make this political. no, this is a humanitarian crisis. and everything should be done to get them back as soon as possible. thank you very much. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. 250 days, just unbelievable this is where we are. thank you, my friend, as always. so i want to start with a story that in any other universe would have absolutely nothing to do with politics or anything even approximating controversy. the kind of news we all used to read or hear and accept. but in the post-trump era, this

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seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign, a political intimidation, in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. and that at the core is part of the sticks of our democracy that are before us today. because once rule of law goes out the window, it is not something that is easy to get back and it is very much a part of the decision that we have to make before us in the next few months. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, congressman jamie raskin, thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. that is all in on this tuesday night. alex wagner tonight starts now. we have new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren winsor has given us and we will be playing that in the hour, so stay tuned. i will pick like i said, exclusive never before heard audio recordings of justice samuel alito speaking to an undercover progressive activist. that is what we have tonight. that is in addition to the bombshell recordings that were released yesterday and we will definitely want to hear these recordings when we play them. if you have been wondering how those secret tapes were made in the very first place, how activists and judges on the highest court in this land, how they came to mingle behind closed doors? the answer to that begins almost 10 years ago to this day when the supreme court handed down a major decision. reporter: supporters of the hobby lobby cheered today s victory. the oklahoma family that owns the chain of 500 craft stores claims that providing insurance coverage for some forms of contraceptives under obamacare would be the equivalent of paying for abortion. the court called the rolling startling and said it will allow companies to opt out of any law they judge incompatible with their sincerely held religious beliefs. the hobby lobby decision. the majority opinion was written by justice samuel alito and it was one of the first signs that conservatives on this court were willing to go after reproductive freedoms no matter the consequence. in the wake of the dobbs decision 10 years later, hobby lobby seemed sort of like the canary in the coal mine in more ways than one. in november 2022, the new york times offered key reporting about how the hobby lobby decision came to be. for years before the court heard the case, conservative christians have been engaged in a campaign called operation higher court. that operation was to personally court and influence the supreme court s conservative justices. that effort was spearheaded by a man named reverend robert shank who would recruit christian couples who he called stuff missionaries to gain access to the judges and to impress upon them the importance of conservative christian values. here is how the new york times described one of their strategies. reverend gave his stuff missionaries close instruction, the justices were more likely to let their guard down at the supreme court historical society annual dinners because they assumed attendees had been properly vetted. ca justice, boldly approach, schenck told the couples according to a briefing document reviewed by the times. if given the opportunity, bear witness to biblical truth, but don t push it, he said. your presence alone at the historical society events telegraphs a very important signal to the justices. christians are concerned about the court and the issues that come before it. that strategy appears to have paid off. according to the times reporting, some of schenck s stuff missionaries were able to build enough of a relationship with justice alito and his wife, martha and, that they obtained advanced notice of the court s hobby lobby decision before it came out. that breach of that unprecedented breach foreshadowed the leaked dobbs decision striking down go versus wade two years later. that specific strategy of using the supreme court s annual historical society dinners as a way to gain access to supreme court justices, it turns out that too is relevant again, just this week. they historical society dinner is a yearly event where wealthy donors give money to a nonprofit dedicated to preserving the court s history. in exchange for their money, those donors get to rub shoulders with some of the justices and their spouses. as it turns out, conservatives weren t the only ones in on this arrangement. last week, progressive activist lauren winsor who happens to be a member of the historical society, bought a ticket for the event. she got in, she pretended to be a conservative donor attending the event with her husband. ms. lender then approach some of the conservative justices and secretly recorded her conversations with them. and busyness has not heard the full tape of what is recorded so we cannot say for certain where edits were made if any were actually made. tonight we have some brand-new, never before heard audio from that event to play for you and when you hear these new tapes, he will hear something familiar to what was on the tapes released yesterday. a justice in this case, justice alito, who is aggrieved and frustrated, who is nakedly partisan and totally unconcerned by appearing to be all of those things in front of a total stranger. remember what we heard yesterday. as someone who really cherishes my face, i just don t know that we can negotiate the way that needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think it is a matter of, like, winning. i think you are probably right. on one side or the other, one side or the other is going to win. i don t know. i mean, there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully. but it is difficult, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can t be compromised. they really can t be compromised. so it is not like you are going to split the difference. and that is what i m saying. i think that the solution really is, like, winning the moral argument. like, people in this country who believe in god have got to keep fighting for that, to return our country to a place of godliness. i agree with you. i agree with you. member, at this closed-door cocktail party, winsor was also able to get justice alito s wife, martha and, to explain her deeply personal motivation for flaying two insurrectionist flags in front of their homes. that is a story that has just scandalized this court and is reporting this week would seem to suggest that mrs. alito has no shame about what she has been doing , in fact, quite the opposite. after deriding who have been critical of the scandal, she made clear that these flags she flies are explicitly her form of resistance and response. i know what i want, i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i had to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. and he is like, please don t put up a flag. i said i want to do it because i am deferring to you but when you are free of this nonsense, i am putting it up and i am going to send you a message every day, maybe every week i will be changing the flags, i made a flag in my head, this is how i satisfy myself, i made a flag, it is white and yellow and orange flames around it. in the middle is this word. in italian, it means shame. just to be clear here, justice alito has publicly stated his wife did not fly these flags to associate herself with the stop the steal movement or any other group. but it seems quite clear from the clip that his wife very much sees these flags as a form of political expression and a response to what she believes are liberal attacks. perhaps most concerning in these recordings, though, is martha-ann alito s five-year plan for revenge . it is okay because if they come back to me, i will get them. i m going to be liberated, and i m going to get them. there is a five-year defamation statute of limitations. i don t know what you mean by they. the media. okay, so martha-ann alito, the wife of a supreme court justice, that she has a plan to get back at the media by suing for defamation. and she thinks she will have the opportunity to do that in the next five years, when she is free of all this nonsense. is samuel alito s wife telling us something here about justice alito s retirement plans? and how concerned should we all be that a supreme court justices spouse is talking about the american media with open contempt? tonight we have grand brand- new audio from that same event where justice alito himself tells us what he thinks about the press. the other voice you will hear on this tape is an associate of lauren winsor s who was also at this event. i just wanted to ask you, why do you think the supreme court is so is being so attacked and being so targeted by the media these days? well, i think it is a simple reason. they don t like our decisions and they don t like how they anticipate we may decide some cases that are coming up. that s the beginning and the end of it. and there are there are groups that are very well-funded by ideological groups that have spearheaded these attacks. that s what it is. like who? propublica. propublica gets a lot of, you know, gets a lot of money, and they have spent a fortune investigating clarence thomas, for example. everything he s ever done in his entire life, and they ve done some of that to me too. but, you know, they look for any little thing they can find, and they try to make something out of it. and be seen is reached out for comment from both samuel alito and his wife, martha-ann alito, but we have not heard back. joining me now is lauren winsor, progressive activist and the executive producer of the undercurrent. thank you for being here, i know you have had a busy week so far. we are so appreciative of all that you have set this far and all you have to share with us tonight. first, start with a new sound that your organization or your colleague has given us. there are two parts of this new tape that strikes me as concerning. the first is justice samuel alito saying that the media is attacking him because the media doesn t like how they anticipate the court has decided cases and may decide upcoming cases. was that a window into what may be coming down the pipe in the next two weeks? how did you interpret that? i mean, i definitely interpreted it as being a harbinger for bad things to come. did you get the sense when he was talking about the media and specifically citing propublica, for example, and their expensive investigators reporting about clarence thomas, that these stories are very much being shared behind closed doors at the supreme court? his media awareness seemed to be relatively high. it is very high, and he already had a sense of grievance when i first spoke with him in 2023, but it was much more pronounced this year i think in the two conversations that both allie and i had with him. can we talk about the context here? the fact is, you and your colleague both had conversations with the alitos. for those who have not been to historical society of us, is this what happens at them? we know two bombshell series of reports about conversation, advocacy campaigns that are happening between attendees and the justices on the supreme court. it is interesting, i had actually read that initial report in the new york times about reverend schenck and that is part of what played into my going in the first place but i did not read that report and think i should become a member now. it really was incited by the propublica reporting on clarence thomas and it is interesting that justice alito wants to rail about the money taken by propublica for investigating public servants while clarence thomas is not disclosing millions of dollars of gifts from gop donors and i have no idea what propublica s finances are but as someone who is an independent journalist, i would imagine that the money that clarence thomas is taking probably read the budget of propublica in any given year. is such a good point, what did you hear in justice alito s explanation for that? did you hear it almost seems as if there is certainly no contrition, but there is not even an acknowledgment that there was any wrongdoing on the part of clarence thomas in accepting potentially millions of dollars in unspecified gifts from conservative donors? it is not verbatim, but it is almost for meeting verbatim, making something out of any little thing. i don t consider any little thing to be buying my mother s house or paying for my nephew s tuition or getting a free rv loan. and these are all things he has accepted from gop donors. so, it would be a much different story if this were just about vacations he was taking with his wife and the family, most people would write it off as, it was a trip. most people would not consider traveling with friends or associates as being something that is that big of a deal, that is not actually what we are talking about with clarence thomas, is it? no, it is another order of magnitude, it would seem. and it has been going on for years. i guess some part of me is surprised that you, not knowing the alito s, you re just a random member of the historical society, is able to even get within shoulder rubbing distance of a justice and then draw him into conversation about some of the most incendiary topics in this country, which is a partisan divide. how did it actually unfold when you were in the room with the justice? it should be stated that in the guidance for the events, the historical society says, if you broach topics that are before the court, it may be grounds for you to be kicked out and so there is definitely a deliberative process in, how do i approach someone that, you know, not only are judges supposed to be really the height of discretion, the height of, you know, judgment, right? this is the highest court in the land, this is the supreme court justice, so i definitely went into this assuming that i was not going to get anything newsworthy. in 2023, i did not get anything newsworthy. but, i thought, you know, throughout the year that transpired, the media s scrutiny on justice alito has intensified so much and his grievance level is probably so much more peaked, that unlike clarence thomas who did not show up to this dinner but has been reported to have shown up to it many times, and he did not show up in 2023, by the way, that justice alito would probably attend anyway, even though he was undergoing this very intense media glare and sure enough, he was there and i think, you know, it was just something that i can t say what was in his mind so i don t know if in 2023, he had the same level of grievance and, you know, it changed over the course of the year? there are a couple options there. did it change or was it always there and he just felt more comfortable? was it hard to get him to talk? at the very end of this conversation, he says, are you a lawyer? i think he is talking to your colleague, i am not sure if it is you or her but it wasn t like you had offered any biographical information other than you had a husband who is not in the room. and i wonder why you operate that piece of information? how did you actually get into conversation with him? did you go up to him and start talking to him? the reason why i brought up my husband was that in 2023, i came with a male friend. the context of it was, we had a conversation after dinner, in 2023, my male friend was with me , he was not with me in 2024, so when i saw justice alito solo, it was one-on-one. it was, hi, there, my husband really wants to let you know that we are rooting for you, that you really have all the grit. the reason why i said you have all the grit, if it does not stick out to people, this is because donald trump had treated something out about how , you know, there should be more justices like samuel alito , with the grit that samuel alito has, so i felt like it was kind of a flag, if you will , to justice alito, that it was a safe space for him? a safe space, yes. i was trying to signal to him very coyly without saying trump because it goes back to the way the conversation to bridge a conversation with someone who has the highest level of discretion come you can t talk about partisan politics, if i had locked up in answer to talking about joe biden or donald trump, he would have shut down. so talking about polarization was really a way into the conversation that wasn t as aggressive but also indicative of what i was really trying to get out, was, is he acting on bias? and i really do believe that the american people deserve to know, is the supreme court so compromise that we do not really have impartiality, the bedrock of our judicial system? i think hearing it from his mouth, that he cannot be impartial, there are things that cannot be compromised, that needs to be fuel for journalists and for congress to say, tell us, what are the things that can t be compromised? lauren, look. you brought us into a room that few people are ever in and i think these tapes are revelatory and they are coming at a time of crisis for this court. we are not in having this conversation, thank you for bringing some of that conversation to our air, we are really appreciative, thanks for spending some time with me tonight. thank you, alex pick coming up this hour, we have new details about donald trump s presentencing meeting with his probation officer. it turns out he is being treated differently, just maybe not in the way he would like you to believe pick for scott hunter biden today joined donald trump in becoming a convicted felon facing possible jail time. does that mean the system is now en route? we will get into the republican response, coming up next. next. chewy, a citi client, uses citi s financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need. right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. if you have chronic kidney 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we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. president biden s son, hunter biden, was found guilty today on three felony gun charges. given this news you might have thought maybe the conspiracy about president biden rigging the justice system, maybe you thought that is going to collapse. it did not. today is the first step in delivering accountability for the biden crime family pick we have been saying two-tier system of justice for some time. the president son being convicted on three counts [ inaudible ] it doesn t, every case is different and clearly the evidence is overwhelming here. do you think the department of justice is still left nice against conservatives even though we see this verdict today? absolutely, when they tell school moms they are domestic terrorists because they don t like what is being taught in their classroom and other things, we can go into it, but we can go into it, but we want. atrial campaign statement released today callcenter better s trial nothing more than a distraction from the real crimes of the biden crime family. and in lockstep with the party front-runner, the chairman of the house oversight committee, republican james, said the work will not be done until the department of justice investigates everyone involved in the the biden s correct influence peddling schemes. joining me now is the cofounder and editor at large of the bulwark. thank you for joining me. this criminal conviction is apparently a distraction from the real crimes of the biden crime family pick is that strategy going to work? today s conviction was awkward, right? it is awkward for the talking point that it was all right, that biden justice department was weapon eyes only against republicans. but we live in a world in which the reality and the fact have a hard time catching up, you can see how deeply invested republicans are in there talking point about the biden crime family pick so it is not a shock that they are going to continue to repeat those talking points over and over and over again. but, i do think the contrast and the reaction to the conviction of donald trump in the conviction of hunter biden has been very, very telling here. again, it is always difficult to know how it is going to play out. we may see this at the debate. and other biden folks think this is going to come up at the debate and you know donald trump is going to try to make an issue of the fact that the president s son is a convicted felon which will be offered, being a convicted felon himself . but democrats have been making this point and let me even make the point that there are a number of democrats who are facing indictments under the biden justice department, not just the president s own son, but a democratic senator, senator menendez, henry cuellar, down in texas, these are all democrats. if the system is so rigged, how do they explain that? the answer is, they don t feel the need to explain that at all. they are just going to go with a spin. i just wonder who the spin is for, right? you talk about the reaction, this was a statement from the president of the united states after his son is convicted of felonies. as i said last week, i am the president but i am also a dad, jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loveland battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love, out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. as i also said last week, looks at the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. it is a very strong statement, it is a tough statement for a father to make, and i think [ inaudible ] whatever the republican argument here is about biden rigging the system, among the [ inaudible ] i don t think there is any reason to doubt his word at this point. and again, this creates a really significant difference between the tantrum donald trump and his supporters have thrown and the acceptance of the rule of law and the decision of a jury that was represented with all of this evidence. the point you re making is, who is this for right now? almost everything republicans say is for the audience of one, it is for donald trump. this is what the base wants to hear about that is not the group of voters who will be deciding the selection. not to ask too poetic about it but i think embedded in biden s statement is a call to empathy, right? for those who have fallen, for people who have addiction and are trying to make it through a dark period, versus trump, who is all grievance all the time, and i think we think a lot we don t know a lot about where this country is headed, but really, appealing to people s since of forgiveness and empathy does not seem like a political strategy that has an expiration date. am i being too soft here? no, again, it is a very interesting contrast. if donald trump s superpower is his shamelessness, his refusal to ever take responsibility or apologize, joe biden s superpower is his empathy. and again, republicans aren t going to give him any credit for it but i do think there are a lot of americans who are going to say, this is a tragic situation, there are questions about hunter biden s judgment and his behavior, but also what you are seeing from joe biden is, this is what a father, a father who has lost his other son, how they would react to something like that. and i think there will be a sliver of the electorate, a crucial sliver, that is going to look at that and say we understand that seems human to us. that seems like something that we can identify with and admire as opposed to the constant conspiracy theories and the victim cardplaying and really, the vicious attacks on the criminal justice system and the jury system coming from donald trump. it is a real choice i had. this is going to be very, very indicative of who we are as a country. thank you again for your time, it is great see you. thank you. still to come this evening, we have new reporting about what appears to be a coordinated effort to broadcast disinformation about this fall s election on your local newscast. when it comes to donald trump a criminal conviction, republicans need a reality check. we have one, that is next. nex. with all the money i saved i thought i d buy stilts. being so tall definitely has its advantages. oh whoa. here you go, kiddo. thanks. hi honey ready to go? yup. there it is, there it is. ahhh.here we go. i guess it also has some disadvantages. yes it does. only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty, liberty. as americans, there s one thing we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here s the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they ve ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that s why i m hoping you ll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it s easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards. but the aclu can t do this important work without the support of people like you. you can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. so please call the aclu now or go to my aclu.org and join us. when you use your credit card, you ll receive this special we the people t-shirt and much more. to show you re a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. we protect everyone s rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. we are here for everyone. it is more important than ever to take a stand. so please join us today. because we the people means all the people, including you. so call now or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty. we re trying to save the planet with nuggets. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. (vo) in two seconds, eric will realize they re gonna need more space. (man) gotta sell the house. (vo) oh.open houses. or, skip the hassles and sell directly to opendoor. (man) wow. (vo) when life s doors open, we ll handle the house. i just went through a rigged trial in new york. it is a rigged system, a terrible system, actually, but it is a rigged system. the whole system is rigged. this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt. rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged. that has been donald trump by the refrain during his criminal trial in new york, the entire system is rigged against him. and yet, the system really seems to be bending in his favor lately as we saw yesterday at his probation interview. trump s interview lasted less than half an hour and trump was allowed to attend the meeting over zoom from his mar-a-lago beach club in florida. with his lawyer, seated by his side. just for perspective here, according to a statement released by multiple public defender groups in new york city, public defenders are deprived of joining their clients for these meetings, the option of joining these interviews virtually by zuma is typically not extended to the people we represent either. joining me now is duncan levin who was a federal prosecutor and served as a senior staffer in the manhattan va s office, he is now a criminal defense attorney. thank you for joining me to make sense of this madness her. first of all, the circumstances of this probation, they sound relatively easy, maybe even cushy but donald trump says that everything is rigged against him. who is right? this is something that is a routine and it typically takes hours. to the extent that there have been things that have been different for him, they have only been different in his favor. most defendants have to come there in person, it is a drab office, these things take hours, there are reports his probation interview took half an hour. this is an opportunity for probation to actually ask the types of questions that a judge might want to know on sentencing that don t come out in the trial. this defendant is somebody who is so well vetted, everybody knows everything, but for most defendants, the judge does not have a sense of who they are as a person. what their family situation is, with her immigration status is, are they using drugs? a lot of people notice about donald trump but you could say half an hour maybe all you need but the fact is, this is them doing their due diligence and to the extent that it is on zoom, the lawyer is there, it is only half an hour, to the extent it is rigged or indifferent, it is only been in his favor picked the other piece of this he likes bringing up is the presence in this case on the da side of amending matthew purkey. they were to the department of justice and now works for alvin and they have literally used matthew to be like, the missing link between job biden, the publisher of the justice department and alvin bragg, the prosecutor that has sought charges against donald trump. for people who aren t familiar with this line of attack, this is how comp talks about matthew. matthew colangelo is a radical left from the doj who was put into the state, working with lakisha james , and then was put into the district attorney s office to run the trial against trump. we will take issue with it put into passive in that statement but you have gone between the doj and the das office, so you know what it is like, i guess, to be a plant. first of all, is that a normal thing that happens? and how in line with reality is this argument? this is something that is also being jammed up on capitol hill a lot. in a letter today, the department of justice said this was conspiratorial speculation. i think it is something a lot more sinister and dark that is going on, this is an attempt to really undermine law enforcement and to so distrust of the public if enforcement function. first off, the manhattan das office and doj walk together all the time, everything today. there are joint task forces on terrorism, on hate crimes, there is a joint task force that looks the filings the banks viral, the suspicious activity reports, there have been drinking since i have been prosecuted by the department of justice and manhattan das office against banks like standard charter, hsbc, ing and barclays, there have been cases every day that rd conflicting between department of justice and the manhattan das office, they don t arrest the same person or step on each other s toes and people go back and forth, and from the manhattan das office to the aspersion of justice and back to the manhattan das office, robert morgan was the most famous manhattan da who served for 35 years from 1975 to 2010, prior to becoming elected as a manhattan da with the united states attorney for the southern district of new york. he was an obama plant quick exactly, a stooge of the ministration. it is preposterous, right? and yet there is no sense these cries of foul play are going to end anytime soon. this is all coming to a head on july 11 when there is the sentencing hearing for trump and i guess i wonder what your expectation for that is and whether there is anything to be done around the cries of foul play in a rigged system that are inevitably going to come up no matter what trump is sentenced to? this is such a hard decision for the judge and you would not wish it on your worst enemy and frankly on both sides, nobody should want him to go to jail or want anyone to go to jail, it is a sad day. that being said it is a tough decision for him to make. the prosecution is virtually going to be asking for jail time. the defense is looking for a conditional discharge saying he has been punished enough by the felony and that is it. it will be an outcry on both sides no matter what it is. this is something that is very difficult decision. i don t know that there is any way to the political thicket of it, other than to say this is a judge who has really been around the block and will be taking this seriously unfairly and i think you ll see a sentence that is free of some of those political considerations, something that he will be, maybe dom amato, but i think both sides will be able to make of it like a rorschach test, if you will, they will be able to argue around it what ever it is. that is not exactly you are not giving me the inside dope on what you think it would be and i would never put you on the spot for that, but for all the we have seen thus far it feels like the volume is only going to increase. thank you, my friend, for being here, helping us all through this. coming up, trump appointee judge eileen cannon tosses out part of trump s indictment in the classified documents case. we are going to get to that but first, some very orwellian messaging broadcast from your trusted local news station, that is next. next. at bombas, we re obsessed with comfort. softness. quality. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. when life spells heartburn. how do you spell relief? r-o-l-a-i-d-s rolaids dual-active formula begins to neutralize acid on contact. r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells relief. our greatest responsibility is to serve our treasure valley communities. eastern iowa communities. we are extremely proud of the quality balanced journalism that cbs-4 news produces. but we are concerned about a troubling trend of irresponsible, one-sided news stories plaguing our country. we are concerned about a troubling trend of irresponsible, one-sided news stories plaguing our country. do you remember that nightmare fuel from 2018? the media organization, sinclair broadcast group, which owns nearly 200 local tv news outlets, had dozens of their local anchors across the country all read the same orwellian script about bias in the media. unfortunately, some members of the media use their platforms to push their own personal bias and agenda to control exactly what people think. this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. today, sinclair broadcast group was caught again, with dozens of local anchors, again, reading the same script. the newsletters public notice and popular information first brought attention to the copycat newscast, which featured a script you might say has a very clear, conservative agenda. the wall street journal calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. illustrate journalism with reporting calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. is national correspondent matt galka tells us, the issue could be an election decider. the issue could be an election decider. now, the story, these dozens of local news outlets ran with was based on a widely panned piece in the wall street journal last week, claiming that behind closed doors, president biden was showing signs of mental slippage. the only people quoted on the record in that piece to support that reporting were republican officials, including former speaker of the house, kevin mccarthy, who is not at all known for being the most reliable anything. meanwhile, several democrats including senator chris have come out publicly to say that they get quotes to the wall street journal for that piece and the paper chose not to include them. include them. chose not to include them. said he told the journal that biden is someone who is sharp, engaged, and leads the conversation. on aside from the clear partisan edge to all of this, recent polling from gallup says that americans have very low trust in media outlets. just 32% of the country trust the media. but, that is not true when it comes to local news. pew research polling from earlier this year showed that 71% of americans trust their local news outlets. which is what makes what sinclair is doing here snow so nefarious. maybe you don t trust the wall street journal or cable news, but it might trust the station that gives them the weather, and that is the real issue. that issue could be an election decider. election decider. because there are places you d like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga they say we should stop eating so much meat. an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. if you have generalized myasthenia gravis, picture what life could look like with. vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities and reduce muscle weakness with a treatment plan that s personalized to you. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. it can cause serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing and decrease in blood pressure leading to fainting and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections, headache, and injection site reactions. it may increase the risk of infusion-related reactions and infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart hytrulo for gmg and picture your life in motion. oh, why leaffilter? it s well designed, efficient, i appreciate that. leaffilter s technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good, guaranteed. what more could you ask for? call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. in an order that otherwise denied yet another attempt to end the criminal prosecution of donald trump over his handling of classified documents, judge aileen cannon has given trump a partial win. she decided to strike one incident from special counsel jack smith s indictment, the paragraph describing that after he left the presidency, trump allegedly showed a classified map of a foreign country to a representative of a political action committee while saying that an ongoing military operation in the country was not going well. trump allegedly admitted at the time that he shouldn t be showing the map to someone without security clearance, and told the person not to look too closely at it. but, while the incident illustrates how allegedly cavalier trump was with classified information, prosecutors never charged trump with crimes involved with sharing classified information, and now the judge has struck it from the indictment. joining me now is bradley moss, a national security attorney who routinely represents national officials and members of the military in matters pertaining to classified documents. how big of a deal of it is it for prosecutors that this has been struck from the indictment? it is certainly not a critical factor. all this means is that it is not sitting in what is otherwise known as a speaking indictment. it is still information prosecutors can bring out at trial, and almost certainly will litigate to make sure they can bring it out, as evidence of a prior bad act strictly in the context of mr. trump s intent, his motive, his desire, his willingness to conceal this information that he knew he knew he had classified documents, he knew he wasn t authorized to have them and he was retaining them at mar-a- lago. this is a minor, little victory for mr. trump. otherwise, the motion was denied. otherwise, the issue, of course, is that it just took so long. this could have been resolved weeks ago. it never needed to take this long. if it is not a significant win for trump, is it indicative, though, of a broader tension between the special counsel s office and this judge? because throughout this case and it seems like it has ratcheted up in recent months there is maybe not a volley because it seems like it is coming from one side, the judge does not seem happy with jack smith or his team. yes, certainly the tensions continue to boil and they have reached the point where in a hearing just a few weeks ago, prosecutors were so upset and frustrated with their attempts to try to explain to judge cannon their view on the case law and how certain legal precedents apply that the judge had to basically counsel them to calm down. none of us were there, i don t know how badly that got out of hand, but it is never a good sign when you are a lawyer and the judge is telling you to calm down. but, let s be honest about where this is going. judge cannon, for whatever reason, has chosen to take a slow and methodical approach. she hasn t granted donald trump anything of substance, yet, at any point in this case. but because of how she has dragged it out, because she is making sure the classified portions in particular are taking forever, it is almost guaranteed this will never see the light of day, it will never go to trial before people go to the voting booth in november. that seems guaranteed, there seems to be a question about whether we will see the trial, period. but, that seems to be based on politics. trump filed another motion to dismiss today, this one says that the fbi destroyed evidence by not preserving exactly where the classified material was in proximity to nonclassified material and trump is arguing he didn t pack the boxes, he didn t know what was in there. how substantive is this? or, does it matter, is it just more delay, delay, delay? i think it is largely a delay tactic, but the hope is that they might get an evidentiary hearing, something big mentioned in the motion, they want a hearing to probe into how this was conducted, how the boxes were organized, this way whether or not there is something to whether there are allegations of bias or improper storage. on the merits, it s garbage. it has nothing to do with anything in terms of destruction of evidence, and it doesn t absolve trump of the idea that he willfully retained the documents. he knew he had them in 2022, when he turned stuff over to the archives. they told him, hey, there s classified documents in this stuff. they knew he had them over the course of the next year, talking to his lawyers telling him, turn them over. and the fbi kept funding stuff in what you are turning over. it will ultimately not change anything, but quite possibly with the way judge cannon handles things, it could drag it out just a little bit more. just a little bit more. we are now at the first anniversary of the mar-a-lago case, the grand jury and bob dikeman came down on june 8th, 2023. anyone s guess if we get to the second anniversary. bradley moss, thank you, sir, for your time tonight. have a good night. that is our show for this evening. now, it is time for the last word , with jonathan k part. lawrence o donnell come in for jonathan.

Something , Part , Decision , Us , Window , Rule-of-law , Order , Campaign , Seats , Outcomes , Sticks , Government

Transcripts For MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes 20240612



again, along with obamacare, of course. the funny thing is, trump is using this approach to try to appeal to latino voters, while at the same time promising to bring to america the political style and economic policies of the strongmen leaders of places like argentina and venezuela, which have some of the highest inflation rates in the world right now. make it make sense. tomorrow is set to be a big day for economic news. we will get a new inflation report in the morning and the fed will give an update on interest rates in the afternoon. so is rachel maddow would say, watch this space. and that is tonight s reidout . you can follow me on tiktok and instagram and follow our show accounts on instagram and tick tock. all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in as we deliberated today, we reached a verdict pretty quick. the presidents son found guilty of violating federal gun laws. no one in this country is above the law. everyone must be accountable for their actions, even this offender. tonight, what today s verdict does and does not mean about the rule of law in america. everyone is saying, where is hunter? a two-tiered system of justice we have. and how we campaign led by a convict is vetting potential running mates. certainly like having committed a crime and the scandal that just won t end. i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag. tonight jamie raskin and aoc together on their push to get answers from the supreme court. can you tell us how the supreme court and specifically the chief justice have addressed these scandals? when all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i am chris hayes. in a political era marked by a never-ending string of historic firsts, here is another today. a rare court decision that conservatives received with glee. hunter biden has been found guilty on all counts in his gun trial, federal trial in wilmington, delaware. hunter biden, the last living son of the sitting president was convicted today on three felony counts connected to lying on a federal firearms application in 2018 by not disclosing his struggles with drug addiction. he had that gun for 11 days. hunter biden now faces 25 years in prison and his father, president joe biden, did not blast the case as a crooked witchhunt. he did not target the prosecutors, the judge and the jurors, some of whom called into major news shows to discuss the verdict with no fears for their safety in this high-profile case. president biden did not shake his fist at the justice system. he put up this statement. as i said last week, i am the president, but i am also a dad. jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride. as i also said last week, i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. i have to say i find that genuinely touching. his love of family. also respect of the process. it is an incredibly stark contrast to the ceaseless barrage of absolutely unhinged authoritarian histrionics we all witnessed last month. remember? not just donald trump, but the entire republican party. all of the people dressing up like donald trump who went to the courthouse so he will pick them to be vice president. all of them basically calling to tear down the entire judicial system or casting aspersions on new york jurors or the judge or the prosecutor. everyone. all because their nominee got caught falsifying business records and was convicted unanimously by a jury of his peers on 34 felony counts. this was a rigged trial by a convicted judge who was corrupt. a disgrace. this is like a soviet style thing. show me the person and i will show you the crime. this was a political smear job. this is what you see in banana republics. this is the most outrageous travesty i ve ever seen. this is a justice system that hunts republicans while protecting democrats. this was a hoax, a sham. do we want to become a country where we try to jail are political opponents? what do you think the party affiliation of hunter biden is? and so this hunter biden conviction is as clear a moment of contrast as possible between the two major coalitions, the major parties in the country today. what it illustrates is that one party, under donald trump, and this is important, has placed itself outside the american constitutional order, while the other is trying to defend and uphold it. that was clear as day on january 6, but particularly in the aftermath there was palpable were among republicans. lots of them talking about how horrified they were and resigning from the administration and all of that. and there was a sense the party wanted to distance themselves from trump s lawlessness. that was then. today they are fully united as a party in opposition to the constitution. an attitude by one of the most powerful conservatives you ve never heard of. he wrote portions of the heritage foundation s project 2025 on how to remake the executive branch and a trump presidency. the washington post identified him as a potential chief of staff. he lays out his vision for a post-constitutional presidency to turn the government into a flatly authoritarian project or failing that, just a mafia style. disease more control of the justice department and assert power to withhold congressional appropriations and that is just on trump s first day back in office. meanwhile democrats are not just making statements of faith, they have taken real actions to preserve those institutions and their independence. no better example of this is the prosecution of hunter biden. remember how this started? okay, back in 2018 under david weiss, the u.s. attorney trump appointed in delaware, the fbi probed hunter biden. there were subpoenas, but there were no charges and remember, trump grew angry that his justice department had not publicized the investigation into his opponents son during the 2020 election. after trump lost the election, republicans insisted president biden would obstruct justice to keep his son free and they called for a special counsel to investigate. when a new president comes and it is his right to replace any u.s. attorney they want. they usually do. biden replaced all of trump s appointees except for two. who bill barr had test to investigate the russia probe. and david weiss, who was investigating his own son. that is because the new president, at the pains of a possible criminal conviction of his surviving son in recovery, wanted no appearance of impropriety or interference and infect biden s attorney general merrick garland went a step further and appointed weiss as special counsel to make sure his work on the hunter biden case was truly independent. that was a move that republicans opposed. the house judiciary committee writing, david weiss can t be trusted. this is just a new way to whitewash the biden family corruption. after all that an appeal deal was worked out with hunter biden and ultimately rejected by the courts. weiss ended up charging the president son for an offense so rarely prosecuted that even trey gowdy, the former congressman and prosecutor, could scarcely believe it. i did gun prosecutions for six years. i went after convicted felons. i went after people who were fugitives from justice. i went after lots of different people who were prohibited from possessing a firearm, but i bet there were not 10 cases prosecuted nationwide of addicts or unlawful drug users who possess firearms or lied on applications. i bet there weren t a dozen, which makes you wonder of all the cases you could be pursuing in delaware, why are you pursuing this one? all of this was facilitated by democrats in the white house and department of justice and capitol hill to restore faith in equal justice under the law and the norms of the constitutional order. donald trump flagrantly violated the law, interfering with the department of justice. stewing when he could not interfere further. publicly calling for prosecutions. you may have forgotten that months into his presidency troubles calling federal prosecutors and cultivating relationships with them, including the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. and obama holdover who was overseeing the investigation into stock trades made by trump s health secretary. he said those calls made him uncomfortable and he was fired as u.s. attorney less than a day after he finally refused to take a call from president trump. the administration would later tell propublica, trump s personal attorney bragged about getting him fired with reportedly telling trump, this guy is going to get you. the former united states attorney for the southern district of new york joins me now. an interesting study in contrast over the past few weeks. what strikes you about the reaction? when you think about the biden family and how joe biden in particular thinks about his job and not just his job, but his family. upon a conviction or before the conviction, the arrest and indictment of his son, given what his family has been through, you would think every fatherly instinct would ve been to protect him. if you are a father, and i know you are, you love your children more than you love yourself. you try to protect them from harm and you try to protect them from bad consequences. the biden family has suffered lots of bad things as a family and yet there are some things more important than that when you are the commander in chief and basically the president of the country and one of those things is that no one is above the law and the rule of law matters. here is an occasion as you were playing out in the intro, where joe biden had absolute authority. literal authority. he had no authority over robin bragg and did not direct the prosecution of donald trump. it is his justice department. he had the authority to direct people not to prosecute his son. he could have fired the special counsel. he could have directed the special counsel not be appointed in the first place. he could have pardoned his son preemptively. all of that conduct, given that it is his son, it kind of makes you pause and think about ton about how unbelievable that is. in a million years, if the shoe were on the other foot and donald trump was facing his son being prosecuted, by me if i had been held over. a biden holdover prosecutor, not in a million years with that have happened. some of the people on the right, the people who support donald trump, are trying to cast this as some clever program by which this actually proves they yes. i will say it is outlandish imagining don junior getting in trouble with guns and drugs, but stephen miller said this. the gun charges are a misdirection and an easy opt to sell to a quiet media that is also willing to be duped. this is about protecting joe biden and only joe biden. no matter what happens, right, the corrupt deep system is deeper than you realized. if every possible outcome, every possible permutation is arguably a point in your favor, maybe your position is terrible. i used a different word than terrible. honestly i don t even think he was required to keep david weiss on in delaware. honestly, when i say bend over backwards, that is bending over it would have been perfectly reasonable to replace him. obviously it would not be reasonable to say wink wink, nagy nudge. but if you say do your thing. by the way some other features are important to point out and you mentioned some in the intro. the jury verdict came out. they did not dox the jury or attack the judge. he did not say this is a witch hunt. he said what people say. what i used to say when i was u.s. attorney for 7 1/2 years. you win some and you lose some. we say we respect the verdict of the jury. completely opposite to what donald trump said. it was striking. after that trump verdict, i remember judge kaplan in the federal civil trial with e. jean carroll told the jurors, look, you can talk to the press if you want. i would advise you not to. in alvin bragg s case they did not and i think we all know the reason. they would expose themselves to harassment and possible threats and violence. here you had the jurors talking to us, which, great, am a reporter. i like it, but what a contrast. it is a very stark contrast and i think it goes to show that when joe biden and his supporters talk about the rule of law and nobody being above the law, they mean it. you can disagree with joe biden s policies and talk about the border and all of these things that are not in my bailiwick, but on the question of whether or not the rule of law is to be enforced and no favor given to anyone, including the son of a sitting president of the united states. the republicans are full of it on trump side and biden is not. he has walked the walk. my final question for you is about independence in the department of justice. we have a post mix in order. one of the things about nixon and the reckoning at a level of regulation, norms, and that schuetz was the department of justice can t just be a tool in the hands of the executive to pursue vendetta to prosecute and punish enemies to protect friends. the trump vision is exactly that and in fact, explicitly that. they really think we are going to come in and it is going to be like day one, go open an investigation on that person, prosecute them. what they have accused everyone else of doing. there is a great irony. one of the cases pending against donald trump, the mar-a-lago documents case in federal court in florida, donald trump steam has made a number of motions to dismiss the indictment. one of those is vindictive prosecution. there is no evidence that joe biden or anyone else directed the investigation and prosecution and indictment. by saying the things they are saying now that you are pointing out, donald trump is ironically laying out the foundation for a vindictive prosecution motion to dismiss on behalf of all the current people donald trump will be going after. he is announcing his plans before election. all of those statements and those plans, project 20/25 and everything else, will be chapter and verse and asking for those dismissals of those indictments. coming up, congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez and jamie raskin on the litany of scandals rocking the supreme court, but first, what we are learning about donald trump s rude awakening from the justice system, next. system, next. shop etsy anytime for furniture, lighting, and other thoughtful pieces made by real people to bring a little something extra to the ordinary. find handmade items that add wow to your walls, help your party set-up pop, and new things to help you fall in love with your family room again. when you want one-of-a-kind items to give your home a little refresher. etsy has it. my name is marie. i m 49 years old and i m a business owner. i own a lemonade and ice cream shop in florida, so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just from a year out in the sun. i m still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. i did not want a dramatic change. i wanted something subtle. and i m really, really happy with the results. it s still me, but with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow s feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. donald trump has been convicted of 34 felonies so now americans, the ones who don t know at least, are getting a crash course in the way things change when you become a felon in this country. since his conviction in new york trump is expected to have his gun license revoked under federal law. convicted felons are prohibited from possessing a gun. that was part of the issue in the hunter trial. it is unclear what that means for guns in his possession now with cnn reporting he told the probation officer yesterday he has a gun in florida. he could lose his liquor licenses for his golf clubs because new jersey law prohibits any person who has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude from possessing a liquor license. the question, have you ever been convicted of a crime, is often on job applications. it is the subject of campaigns to get rid of it, to help former convicts get jobs and reenter society. that question is apparently still part of the vetting of trump s vice presidential pick, where it seems only one member of the ticket gets to be a felon. they asked us for a number of things. i think a number of people have been asked to submit this and that. like your taxes or something? criminal background? have you committed a crime? have you ever lied about this? certainly you have those conversations. he extensively covered trump world including his recent reporting on the juror. it is interesting to watch folks who don t know this and to watch the various implications of being convicted of a felony and all the different types of regulations and things you cannot do. in some states it is disenfranchisement, voting, liquor licenses and the like. being a person of color and a former prosecutor, i am unmoved by these newfound epiphanies on the right with respect to the reality of life in america if you are a convicted felon. one thing i find to be particularly interesting is how the right is scrambling to rearrange the narrative of what it is to be a felon. think of this for a moment. you re talking about the party that planted its flag on the notion of law and order in america, now having to walk out and say it is politically advantageous for our candidate to have 34 convictions on his record. this is a narrative they are not going to be able to square, but it is funny to watch them try. he invited in the bronx on stage, folks who are facing charges for a broad conspiracy with people that includes moving heavy drugs and violent crime. very serious, gnarly stuff. and has them on the stage like hey, this is our thing now. let s be clear, you are talking about whether someone is an associate of new orleans. an associate of felons. the list is long. i think they are trying to be like, it is actually good we are felons and they don t actually believe that. it s amazing how much the tough on crime philosophy falls by the wayside when it is the racist game show hosts turn in the barrel. donald trump and his minions talk day in and day out about a two-tiered system of justice. he is correct that one does exist in this country, it is just he is at this tier and everyone else s at this tier. so many things no other defendant could get away with. including the judge and all that stuff, he would have been put in jail for sure. absolutely and now behind the scenes and in the open he and his maga brain trust are getting ready to exploit parts of the u.s. criminal code to go after alvin bragg, letitia james, jack smith, if he returns to power in 2025. some of this is being cooked up behind the scenes and policy papers, but so much is being done in the open. you ve also got them moving to get alvin bragg before a committee. he will testify with the gop led judiciary committee. one question i had about all of this, does any of this matter in the process that trump was going through? no, it does not. you don t think it matters, talking about it is all rigged? does that matter for sentencing? donald trump s public rhetoric absolutely matters. i thought you were referring to alvin bragg going to capitol hill, which is something i think he should not do. with respect to the things donald trump is parroting in the dialogue around his case, that matters. one of the things the probation officer is going to take into account is what degree of understanding and remorse do you have? i screwed up, i m sorry. exactly. to walk in his office and say that when you have every opportunity with the microphone in front of your face. you ve reported on this and this has been going around the house republican leaders are privately gauging support for legislation that would let current and former presidents move a state case to federal court. have you heard any of that? we reported in rolling stone at the end of last month that trump had been personally calling around to different conservative allies, including republican lawmakers on capitol hill, to lobby them. when i m back in office, wouldn t it be great if you passed legislation that is ready for me to sign to have former and current presidents be able to move their cases to federal court. again, i think they are getting high on their own supply. i feel like that is a bad bill to vote for. for a front-line republican member. right? i m not crazy. if you are a maga lawmaker, certainly there is a cute appeal to it. it is not only moderate republicans on capitol hill saying maybe we shouldn t do this. i ve spoken to cronies who are close to donald trump who have told me maybe we should not go down this route because don t we want to use state a.g. s and conservative district attorneys to go after joe biden or hillary clinton? yes, the principal applying equally would hang them up. there is back and forth about the gun situation, charles. i m sure you have encountered this. what does the law say about whether he can keep the gun in florida? in your crime. he more likely than not will need to turn the gun in in florida. he is going to have a grace period where that is allowed. well technically he might be in violation of the law upon notice of conviction, he is probably going to be allowed but it does not surprise me he has to turn it in in florida. there is an incredible thing happening which is the hunter biden conviction was about a felony conviction. he lied on forms. committing a felony in terms of taking drugs and owning a gun. so he lied on the forms. now we have the ex-president holding a gun, having been convicted of a felony. a remarkable set of circumstances. charles coleman, asawin suebsaeng, thank you both. still to come, samuel alito s wife has more thoughts about flags, amazingly. aoc and jamie raskin on the supreme court legitimacy crisis, ahead. 50 days!? and its refill reminder light means i ll never miss a day of 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i think it is one of these things were trump didn t think there was a problem with it. i think he thought it was fully within his rights to order the breakup of any company he did not like and i think white house counsel sort of restrained that. there is so much circumstantial evidence that the white house and presidency were involved in antitrust decisions that it is hard to deny it. you can find the full conversation i had in this area. scan the qr code that is on your screen. also you can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn t have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. dad is a legend. and his legendary moves might be passed down to you. dancing is just one of the many inherited traits you can discover with ancestry dna. get it for dad, and together you can see which traits were inherited, the places where they started, and the people he shares them with. best of all, it s on sale for father s day. but get movin , this sale is only for a limited time. upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. shop etsy for thoughtful pieces made by real people to bring a little something extra to the ordinary. find items that add wow to walls and make you fall in love with your family room again. when you want one-of-a-kind pieces to refresh your home. etsy has it. no two bodies are the same. some pads, never got that message. but, always flexfoam did! it protects against different flows for up to zero leaks. and it flexes to fit all bodies, for up to zero feel. feel it yourself with always flexfoam. when we say it ll be on time, they expect it to be on time. turn shipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. we re talking about cashbackin. not a game! we re talking about cashbacking. we re talking about. we re not talking about practice? 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the opposite of pride. the alito s have not responded to requests for comment but none of what ms. alito said change the facts that justice alito allowed this to fly over his home while he sits in the highest court in the land hearing cases related to the insurrection on january 6 and sits on the court with his buddy clarence thomas whose wife was interviewed by the committee about her text with donald trump s chief of staff. both refused to recuse themselves, despite the obvious appearance of bias. when faced with an increasingly urgent question, what can be done about the out-of-control court? today democrats held a roundtable on the ethical crisis in the supreme court. i should note that one of the expert legal witnesses there was my wife. leading the panel was jamie raskin, the ranking member of the oversight committee and newark congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, the vice ranking member, and they join me now. it is good to have you on. thanks for having us. i will start with you and what the agenda was today. obviously you can t call hearings yourself as a ranking member and not the chair, but what were you trying to do today? oversight democrats wanted to respond to the national clamor over this crisis of legitimacy at the supreme court. so we analyzed the ethics crisis. we analyzed the political crisis around what got us into this and the blockaded confirmations of people like merrick garland, nominated by president obama to the court, and then we began to talk about what things could be done in the specific case of justices alito and thomas and generally about the ethical collapse of the supreme court. it is the highest court in the land with the lowest ethical standards. the only government officials in the land who are not governed by a binding ethics code. there is no process by which we can hold any of them accountable, so it violates the essential principle that james madison identified as the heart of our justice system. which is that no man can be a judge in his own cause. so we began to explore different avenues of holding them accountable. congresswoman, you said something toward the end of the hearing that it cannot be the case as a constitutional matter, as an almost intuitive commonsense matter, that they are not subject to any checks. we have three branches. checks and balances move between the positions and justice alito said in the wall street journal interview that congress has no ability to regulate us whatsoever. what should congress be doing? what are you brainstorming basically? what is the conversation about what those can be? of course justice alito s position is laughable in this. this idea that he can be and that the court should be accountable to nobody and that the only person they should be accountable to our themselves. this kind of scouts promise sort of set up for how we should be having ethics standards for the highest and most consequential court in the land. it is completely unacceptable and not only is it unacceptable but to have anyone of our coequal branches be completely unaccountable to the others is paving the path to authoritarianism, tyranny, the abuse of power in the united states. it is structurally, completely unsustainable. so it is not a question of if congress has jurisdiction and power over the supreme court. it is what power are we going to exercise in order to reign in a fundamentally unaccountable and rogue court? one of the beautiful things about today s roundtable is we were also able to call in one of our senate colleagues, senator whitehouse, who has been pursuing extensive investigations into the dark money network that has been exerting influence over the court and we raised and discussed varying measures from term limits to an actual binding ethics standard and also congressman raskin and myself will be introducing forthcoming legislation to even have the supreme court be subject to the same $50 gift rule that he and i are subject to, as are everyone else who are members of congress. that is a great point. my understanding, i was talking to my wife, kate shaw, about this. to give testimony during the hearing. she pointed out to me if i am not mistaken that things, for instance, you can get a book deal as a supreme court justice. that is allowed. but you could not like to be a partner that is something that congress passed a statute to say what you could and could not do, because obviously it would be nuts to be a supreme court justice and have a side gig as a lawyer. we all understand that. congress can pass statutes that say this activity is just not allowed. congress has a ban on outside employment and as aoc was saying, we have a $50 gift ban, so none of us goes anywhere near doing that. you don t do $500,000 vacations? that s the comical thing. members of congress don t even understand that. under what circumstance would a supreme court justice be accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars in foreign travel were paid tuition for family members or a recreational vehicle, motor stagecoach? it is outlandish for us to complicate to contemplate. it is like the normal business as usual at the supreme court that they are collecting millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars from their so-called friends. we need to clean that up. we said we will start with something simple that the whole country will be able to understand immediately and intuitively. we want a $50 gift ban. they make $300,000 a year. pay for your own lunch and pay for your own vacation. that does seem quite clear, congresswoman, and also has the advantage again. there are particular issues to deal with, but in some ways the only way to legislate it or for congress to act is outlining broad principles that are equally applicable. absolutely and as all of us as public servants, whether it is both chambers of congress, any of us are subject to the same or similar uniform code of ethics and the fact that the supreme court, which is already unelected, at least for those of us who run for office we have to re-run for office every two years in the house. for an unelected body of nine people, appointed for life, to not have any sort of binding, strict ethics code to which they cannot only be held accountable, but which can be enforced, is actually ludicrous. and it is almost unbelievable that we are sitting here in the year 2024, over 200 years after the establishment of this country, and that we actually have not addressed this issue. it is long past doing and it is common sense. one of the things we addressed, chris, was how the private corruption of the justices mirrors the public corruption of justice. it is this roberts court, this right-wing court dismantling civil rights laws, civil liberties, women s rights to choose, labor law, consumer law, you name it. as they grow more and more removed from the experiences of the way the rest of us live, the more they are willing to demolish the protections. the there are a bunch of things that happened outside of the ap purview that you have to do with equal justice under law and i wonder if both of you would stick around to talk ul about that, is that all right? 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i mean, it was very presidential and, you know, he showed in his statement love for his son and love for his country including the rule of law. the different reactions between a republican colleagues and our democratic colleagues with the trump verdict and hunter biden verdict, it is just astounding. nobody on our side said that the fix was in, nobody said that it was a travesty, nobody said that the justice needs to be turned upside down. everybody accepted it. hunter biden, like donald trump, had the right of counsel which you exercise, you have the presumption of innocence, he had the right to take the stand which he chose not to do like donald trump chose not to take the stand and they have both had unanimous jury verdicts finding that they were guilty on all counts. so i am saying about that what i said about donald trump s verdict which is, they have a right to appeal and they can do that under due process, thank god we have got that in america. and we are going to stand by the rule of law and the system of justice, for the same reason that we are fighting for a supreme court that restores its integrity and reputation because we need to have that kind of confidence, not just at the trial level in federal court or state court. we need to have it going all the way up. those of supreme court justices are just a complete runaway body. speaking of state court in new york, congresswoman, obviously you represent part of new york, there was a huge amount of insults and vitriol that has been directed at alvin bragg both from donald trump on down and people carrying water for him, that has now escalated. he will now he is being called by the house republicans before the judiciary committee and be grilled by house republicans who have rallied behind mr. trump since his conviction last month. gop lawmakers are perpetuating his false narrative that president biden ordered his prosecution. what you think about the fact that they are not escalating to the point where they will call alvin bragg before congress? what we are seeing here unseld is an outright abuse of power in the politicization of the seats of power these republicans hold in order to intimidate the courts and exact political revenge. we have to just look at this from a basic jurisdictional point of view. alvin bragg is not even this is not even a federal case in the same way. we are looking at a state court. and we are looking at municipal and state courts and we have republicans who are trying to haul them in, on what grounds exactly? this is not federal court, they do not have jurisdiction over it, this is truly just and attempt at public targeting. and we see that they do this, this is in the middle of donald trump, it is in the model of invoking and trying to incite as much anger and intimidation in order for them to get the outcomes that they want. they are so eager to be fans to donald trump that their political judgment is off because that is not where the public is and the public understands, with the hunter biden verdict in the donald trump verdict, the rule of law is just working and they are intervening, as you say, and an estate case in order simply to placate donald trump pics to precisely, what we are also seeing here is the stark contrast between joe biden and donald trump. and in president biden, we have both come yes, a loving father who is there to be supportive of his son, but also a president who respects rule of law and is willing to accept the outcomes of the case even if that outcome is not in favor with his family or his personal outcomes. whereas, you have donald trump who takes and finances the seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign, a political intimidation, in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. and that at the core is part of the sticks of our democracy that are before us today. because once rule of law goes out the window, it is not something that is easy to get back and it is very much a part of the decision that we have to make before us in the next few months. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, congressman jamie raskin, thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. that is all in on this tuesday night. alex wagner tonight starts now. we have new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren winsor has given us and we will be playing that in the hour, so stay tuned. i will pick like i said, exclusive never before heard audio recordings of justice samuel alito speaking to an undercover

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Transcripts For MSNBC The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle 20240612



that is tonight s last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. tonight, hunter biden guilty in his federal gun case. what s next for the president s only living son as he awaits sentence thing and what it could mean for the race. then my exclusive interview with john bolton. why he thinks we are not taking the former president s threats seriously enough. plus, pride month under attack. why progress is being lost as the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle and we are now 147 days away from the election and today the president son, hunter biden, was convicted on all counts in his federal gun trial. the jury deliberated the three counts for just three hours. president biden says he accepts the outcome of the case and will always be there for his son. here is my colleague ryan nobles with more. reporter: tonight president biden arriving in delaware, hugging his son on the tarmac after hunter biden became the first child of a sitting president found guilty in a criminal trial. no one in this country is above the law. reporter: it took three hours of deliberations for 12 jurors to unanimously determine hunter biden guilty of three felony counts. for lying about his drug use on a federal background check to buy a gun. special counsel david weiss, who oversaw the prosecution, saying this is not a case about hunter s struggles with crack, but his decision to break the law. s choice to lie on a government form when he bought a gun and then to possess that gun. it was these choices and the combination of guns and drugs that made his conduct dangerous. reporter: inside the courtroom, the president s 54- year-old son did not react as the verdict was read. he left the courthouse holding the hand of the first lady, later releasing a statement saying i am more grateful today for the love and support i experienced this last week from melissa, my family, my friends, and my community then i am disappointed about the outcome. the verdict comes after four days of testimony from people who are or were once close to hunter biden. many testifying about his drug use around the time he filled out the background check saying he was not a drug user. his ex-girlfriend testified she witnessed hunter smoking crack every 20 minutes or so. the prosecution also using clips from hunter s own book. i have no plans beyond the moment. reporter: the defense argued hunter biden did not knowingly lie on the form. tonight we spoke to juror number 10, who asked that we conceal his identity. separating the politics from the case a absolutely. for us it was not politically motivated. politics never played into anything that we said in the jury room. reporter: president biden, who said he would not pardon his son, writing, jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. with that let s get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel this evening. mike memoli is here. he has covered president biden and his family for more than a decade. susan glasser joins us, staff writer for the new yorker and harry litman, former assistant attorney general. mike, you know this president and his family better than any other reporter out there. how are they all reacting to this? biden has a lot of family expressions and one i have heard him invoke so often is that family is everything. it is the beginning, it is the middle, and it is the end. in the more than decade of covered president biden i have seen them come together to celebrate their greatest triumphs. the election, the inauguration most recently. i have also seen them have to endure some of the most difficult and tragic moments as a family. this is one that yet again has brought the family together. to really take stock of a very difficult moment. really the past week and a half has been so difficult to have to relive through this trial the most difficult moments of their family, starting with the death of beau biden and what it did to hunter biden, leading to the addiction to drugs. as i have been talking to people close to the family tonight i have been struck by a tone of defiance about what comes next. there has been concern about what this might mean politically, but also personally for president biden. he is 21 weeks away from his last election. 16 days away from a consequential debate against donald trump, but the tone i am hearing from people close to the president is that they are so proud of their public service as a family and nothing is going to stop them from achieving the goal that is set out in front of them. they know they have a difficult task ahead. the politics, the legal situation does not get easier from here but they are determined to face this together as a family. harry, you wrote in the l.a. times that the jury decision was right, but the prosecution was wrong. i don t think i know what that means. let me try. department of justice guidelines, stephanie, have ways of handling cases and cases like this in which someone lies on a form but does not do any other crime with a gun or part of a gang or whatever are universally dismissed or not treated with the severity that david weiss treated this one. that is how david weiss first proposed to treat this one about a year ago when the gun charges were going to be the subject of a diversion agreement if hunter biden kept clean for two years. it would go away. so the screaming question, not the jury verdict but the question to charge presents and i don t know what the answer is. what happened to change his view of what was the proper punishment and treatment of hunter biden to take it outside how gop practice would normally treat it. because he is a special counsel no one in the doj supervisory structure which normally would say we don t do that to these cases, here is how we handle these cases. no one was there to say that and i think it is certain for whatever reason that hunter was treated more severely than another defendant with the same facts. you have written that you don t think a game changer could change voters minds about this election so i assume you think this verdict won t have much of an impact. we are getting to the point that you are anticipating me too well. look, if donald trump s conviction and becoming the first convicted felon in american history who was a former president, if that was not a radical change in the election, i don t see the conviction of a private citizen, even one who was the son of a current president to be a game changer in this race. it was that close. there was a minor, incremental shift at best toward biden. it is not entirely clear how this conviction of biden s son will play politically. certainly republicans were immediately questioning this, saying this is really just a distraction and all sorts of instantaneous conspiracy theories. default setting from some of trumps public supporters and defenders. you know, hunter biden is not running for president and that s the bottom line. there is no evidence that years of investigations of him, of dragging his name around, has really affected biden s political standing and i don t anticipate this would, either. hunter biden is not running for president. we should remind our audience he has no role in our government, past, present, and no plans for the future. harry, what could he be looking at as far as sentence goes? the standard guidelines would dictate a sentence between 15 to 21 months, based on the conduct and lack of criminal history. those are just recommendations and my best guess, consistent with what i was saying about how people who don t do anything else other than lie on the form are treated is that he will receive a fair bit less than that from the judge. remember however that there are still the tax charges he has to face and david weiss made it clear that the investigation is ongoing and he may be targeting some of hunter biden s conduct in 2014 or so in china, in business dealings. for this charge i expect him to get a sentence that is a matter of months, not the 15 to 21 that the guidelines would otherwise dictate. even if it is just a few months, hunter biden, unlike most people in his situation has secret service protection. so how does that work? your guess is as good as mine, though we have been thinking about it and we know the secret service prepared a plan when it came up with donald trump. trump would have his own wing and people would be there. there would be a lot of cooperation with local authorities. here it is easier because it is federal authorities, bureau of prisons and secret service. that will be worked out one way or another. i think that is sort of the least of the practical issues that this conviction poses today. michael, you laid it out for us, how close the biden family has. how to finance the president is when it comes to protecting his family, how he talks about the family. around this time last year i interviewed the president. much to his teams chagrin, anger, fury, i asked about hunter and he said my son is an innocent man, my son is a good man. the president is now headed deeper into this campaign into the debate stage. how is he going to handle the questions he is asked, the narrative around hunter now that we have this guilty verdict and a president who does respect the rule of law and decisions made by a jury? just think about the gauntlet that is ahead. i mentioned 16 days from now is the first debate. preparation is critical. the president tomorrow is leaving for an important foreign trip. meeting with other key leaders as well as pope francis. you know how close this president is with that hope. it will be an interesting meeting, but then he comes back and has a little over a week to prepare for that debate. we have never in modern history scenery match between combatants like trump and biden and we know the strategy on the part of the former president is very likely to try to get under president biden skin and use this against him. the biden team looks at 2020 when, yes, hunter biden was a frequent political cudgel that trump tried to use against him and the president s advisers say it did not work then and it actually backfired on donald trump. they are presenting this as do this at your own peril to donald trump, but i think it is a concern to people close to president biden that as important as the debate is and as important as preparation is, will he be able to focus on the task at hand? the answer from those i ve spoken to today is that is not going to be an issue. susan, i m sure you remember this question. former president trump and his friends at fox news said it over and over and over. where is hunter? they said it for days, weeks, months. it seemed like years. yet after today s verdict the trump campaign was basically silent, saying it is just a distraction. what in the world is going on here, susan? well, first of all i guess now that donald trump himself where s the label of convicted felon and has been at the spearhead of the most kind of concerted assault that we have ever seen, i think, by one political party in this country against the very legitimacy of the legal system. it is not exactly a comparison that is favorable where you have democrats on down today saying listen, we respect the rule of law. biden isn t going to issue a pardon for his own son. as painful as this is we think that the jury system works and things like that. the contrast with trump is obviously one that is very unfavorable and i am struck by how quickly trumps allies immediately reverted to conspiracy theories and make- believe. i can t stress that enough. they are still in burnet down mode when it comes to our legal system and that includes, you know, trying to imply that this case is a distraction from the real secret being covered up, the real case that should be brought against hunter biden. whatever the conspiracy theory is, it is part of a purposeful plan to rip down the authority and the legitimacy of the legal system, because of donald trump. because of one man. republicans like to say the current president weaponize is the justice department, but i want to share with democrat jim mcgovern had to say about that very thing. watch this. apparently when a republican is convicted it is weaponization, but when a democrat is convicted, the president s son no less, that is justice. give me a break. hunter biden was found guilty by a jury of his peers, just like donald trump. the divide is stunning and it is a great reminder that one political party remains committed to the rule of law and the other doesn t. jim mcgovern bringing a rational thought to a political party. crazy to do these days. michael, there are a lot of apolitical people. it seems like what you laid out with the a clear contrast for voters. is it? it is interesting because what we didn t hear from the president, from those around him tonight, was criticism of a trump appointed judge that presided over this trial or the prosecution from the trump appointed special counsel. there was none of that in the statement before the trial began and today when the try was over, he reiterated his respect for the rule of law and freedom and democracy have been an important part of the president s campaign. that is an example he is showing not just through those words, but the words we saw in another interview last week. the president has the power after this difficult moment, this difficult verdict, to free his son of any potential jail time. he can issue a pardon as soon as the sentence comes down and he has said he will not do that. if ever there was an opportunity for a president to put their finger on the scale of the justice system and given how close he and his family are, it would seem to be in this moment and he said he is not going to do that. thank you all for starting us off on this very serious news evening. when we return this man once worked in the trump administration and a cabinet level position. now one of his biggest critics. john bolton talks the verdicts in both trump and hunter biden s trials. later the biden campaign has an aggressive strategy to brand trump as a felon. how the president s sons verdict could complicate that. the 11th hour, just getting underway on a tuesday night. da. 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( ) ( ) this one will never see the light of day. all right. i bought the team! kevin.? i put it on my chase freedom unlimited card. and i m gonna cashback on a few other things too! starting with the sound system. that s caaaaaaaaash. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? revenge does take time, i will say that. sometimes revenge can be justified. sometimes it can. look, when this election is over, based on what they ve done, i would have every right to go after them and it is easy, because it is joe biden. you see all of the criminality. i know a lot of republicans want retribution. we are going to see what happens. the former president has been vague on details, but there is no doubt that revenge has been top of mind for donald trump. nbc news noting, quote, trump has done at least five interviews since his guilty verdict. in all five he has talked about possible retribution. his former national security advisor john bolton has been warning about this for years. in february, 2023 he wrote trump really cares only about retribution for himself and it will consume much of his second term. john bolton joins us now. ambassador, thank you for being here. i wanted to talk to you because donald trump is clearly not shy about saying he would get revenge on his perceived enemies in a second term. are we taking his threats seriously enough? i don t think enough people are. when you hear trump saying things like people are saying that retribution can be justified, what he really means is i am saying that retribution can be justified. i think he has a long list of adversaries he wants to go after, but i think the justice department under the trump administration will be in continuing chaos as he tells his political appointee is to go after people whether there are grounds to do it or not and what those lawyers do will tell you a lot about their legal integrity. i think it will put the judiciary under real pressure. you might be on the perceived enemy list. are you concerned at all for your safety? i m concerned about a lot of people that i think he made clear he wants to go after. he tried to suppress my book. he tried to get a criminal investigation started. both of those have been settled and taken out of the picture because they were utterly without merit, but i don t think those technicalities stand in trumps way. he said for example he wants to prosecute the former chairman of the joint chief of staff s for daring to have a conversation with his chinese counterpart in the run-up to january 6, to assure the chinese that they need not worry. trump says that his treason and he reminded people that the death penalty used to apply. i think he is very serious. he may joke about it a little bit, but this will be a retribution presidency and i think the justice department will be where the rubber meets the road. you called the new york verdict a fire bell in the night and you urged your party to nominate somebody else at the convention. do you think that is something that could realistically happen? is there a group behind the scenes potentially working on this? i don t think it is realistic, but i think people ought to have a gut check one more time. for most americans voting for a convicted felon, i think, is going to be a real obstacle. you can say all you want that this was the result of political discrimination against trump. he will be able to raise the selective prosecution argument on appeal. when the case was put in front of 12 regular americans, new yorkers like donald trump used to be, they found him guilty. i think the facts the prosecution presented were clear and that is a problem the party will have and could affect senate candidates, house candidates, gubernatorial candidates. i think if he is elected, electing the first convicted felon as president of the united states will cause real damage to the united states and how we are perceived abroad. given the guilty verdict today for president biden son, hunter biden, what do you say to those republicans who say joe biden weaponized the department of justice and made it his political tool? right and basically shot his son in the process. it is a conspiracy theory. i speak as an alumnus of the department of justice. you could not do in that department what trumps supporters say has been done and not have it leaked to every major media outlet in the country. it is possible to be the victim of selective prosecution and unfairly so and also be guilty. i think certainly that is probably true in trump s case. in hunter biden s case they are not done with him yet. there will be an income tax case and the u.s. attorney, special counsel investigation into hunter continues. so i would like to see what the impact of this case is on the election. it will have an election impact, even though it is not joe biden. it is his son. and see what people think when trump says poor donald trump, the whole world is against him. apparently against hunter biden, too. do you think donald trump is a threat to democracy? we keep hearing that phrase. i want to know if you believe it and if so, practically, tangibly what does it look like? i don t think it is a threat to democracy or our system. i think it will cause enormous damage and a term of confusion and turmoil. but the idea that donald trump is going to overthrow the united states constitution, overthrow the republic as an existential threat to democracy gives him too much credit. i think it is important to state the threat accurately. not to overstate it, not to understate it, but to understand what the nature of the threat is so people who oppose it can combat it more effectively. overdoing it i think gives trump a break and that s a mistake. you said that donald trump doesn t have the brains for dictatorship. even though he said that he would be a dictator on day one. does that make him any less dangerous if he is not that smart but still wants to be a dictator? i think it goes to the point that while donald trump has an infinite span of attention when it comes to the greater glory of donald trump, his attention span on most other issues is about he will to a fruit fly. so that his opponents and even some of his supporters who try and move him away from the most dangerous things that he does will have plenty of room to try to step in. i m not trying to minimize what i see donald trump doing. i think what he was doing at the end of his first term is where it will pick up the day he is inaugurated and it is serious. when you say the republic itself will fall like the roman republic well, really? people think donald trump is equal to julius caesar? give me a break. he may not be, but this time around he won t have the safety guards of you, h.r. mcmaster, the list goes on. are you concerned about the people that are in his current orbit and what they are capable of doing and how they can influence him? yes, i think any administration in a second term does not attract the quality of people it does in the first for the very practical reason that the runway in the second term is shorter. trump will be a lame duck the minute he is sworn in and he has a lot of people around him. basically the people who stayed in the government after january 6 who were second and third rate at best. i think the bigger danger is that trump will insist on staffing a second term on personal loyalty to him above all. he is coming up with his decision for his vice presidential nominee and i think the two questions are, number one, do you think the 2020 election was stolen? and number two, if i told you in a similar situation to do what i told mike pence to do, would you do it? unless the answer to both questions is yes, then that person will not be considered for vice president. i think you will see something similar in all of the key positions. that is a very dangerous circumstance and to the extent the senate republicans included take the confirmation process seriously. if they see people who are more loyal to donald trump than they are to the constitution, that alone is grounds against them. is there a certain person that you see as highly dangerous who you are worried about? i would not want to give any of them academy awards. i think there are bright people including people in the house and senate who have joined this cult of personality and the smarter they are, the more dangerous they are. you are giving us some very serious warnings and things to take seriously, but something i m going to say is not that serious. a write in vote. this election is going to be joe biden or donald trump. in 2020 you wrote in dick cheney. you said you would do it again. are you really giving a clear and honest warning if you are willing to do another right in that won t help anything? look, i bought that argument in 2016 when hillary clinton ran against trump and i voted for trump in 2016. hillary and bill were a year ahead of me in law school and i like to say i ve been burdened with them a lot longer than the rest of the country. after working for trump i could not vote for him, but i did not vote for joe biden in 2020 and won t this year because i don t think he is fit to be president either, for different reasons. when you have two people who don t cross the bar of acceptability, i think it is legitimate to cast a protest vote. a lot of republicans told me a year ago that they would not vote for trump. that they will look at biden and choose what they considered to be the lesser of two evils and i hear other republicans and some democrats say the opposite. it is an unhappy time for america when these are the two people we nominated and it will be a bad four years for america, whichever of them wins. then are these concerns that you have that serious? writing somebody and who won t when is not serious. it s a protest vote. if i didn t vote for anybody this time it would be a protest vote as well. i m not going to vote for someone i think is not qualified, not fit for the office. i m not going to vote for people whose principles i don t agree with. ambassador, think you for joining me today. pleasure to meet you. glad to do it. when we return, how hunter biden s guilty verdict could impact his father s reelection campaign, especially with the first debate two weeks away. when the 11th hour continues. ffects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga you know what s brilliant? 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they can t, stephanie and i think we are already seeing previews of how they will contort themselves and make the reach that, oh no, this hunter biden verdict is unique in and of itself. completely different from what is happening to trump and that is not the reality. i think republicans will still try to say that even though it has been demonstrated that they have nothing to gain here. they tried and failed repeatedly to use hunter biden as a political football and the responses today show that they fully understand that it is nothing for them to win here. i think we were describing trump statement as a distraction. so i don t expect them to stop at that, right? they will keep with the trump lies, but when we look at this broadly we have to keep in mind that that is not going to have an impact in the selection. throughout the afternoon we ve heard it repeated that hunter biden is not running for election, donald trump is. we ve also heard the contrast from president biden who fully says he accepts the jury decision. he respects the justice system, compared to trump saying it is rigged and i think that is a contrast that will be replayed again and again and that will be something that captures voters attention more than the verdict specifically on hunter biden. hunter biden is a one off. menendez s legal bills would disagree. the president has started to use the term, convicted felon, calling trump that over and over. now that his son is in that camp, does it make it harder for him to do that? no, because he is not talking about his son. he s talking about the guy running against him to be the next president of the united states. hunter is not running for anything. hunter is taking care of business and will have another casey will have to deal with, just as donald trump is taking care of his business and will have three or four other cases to deal with. from the president s perspective it is smart politics to call the thing what it is. why would you run away from that? honestly he is a convicted felon. we watched our friends on this network countdown each count, one through 34. i think for the biden team it is an opportunity for them to lean into the politics and this is a political campaign. what candidate in the country, in the world for that matter, would not use this kind of weakness that is self-imposed by his opponent? remember this is all because of what donald trump did. joe biden was not in that hotel room with stormy daniels. donald trump was. the reality of it is, that is the reality. that s the truth. those are the facts and why not talk about it when the moment presents itself? judging when and exactly how each time may be a matter of some decision, but lean into it and call the thing what it is. i want to talk about somebody else that talks about politics today in the presidential race. a republican we don t hear from often, paul ryan, he was on fox news and here is what he said. he said he is a populist and authoritarian narcissist. it is a job that rick myers the kind of character he just does not have. that s pretty strong. that s the way i feel. i agree with that. i don t support biden, either. i think his policies are terrible. a lot of republicans make this argument. we heard john bolton saying basically the same thing on the show. michael, what is your response to that? my response is okay. to a certain extent, to each his own, but at a certain point it has to become about the country. going back to your discussion with john bolton, the reality is this is a big deal. you have an individual who is running for president who says he wants to be a dictator. i don t know. that is not what we do or have done. that is not what we are inclined towards. yet we may have had folks in america who danced with this idea back in the 30s. and in the 1950s with john birch society, but leaders in this country and ultimately the american people said that is not who we are. i am not forsaking the future of my kids and my grandkids to some fool who wants to be a dictator, because i know what history has taught me about dictatorships and that is not who we are. so at a certain point the paul ryan s and john bolton s may sit and go, i can t do that. but what i am asking my fellow republicans to do and center- right voters to do is think about the country for once. think about the bigger issue. think about your kids and the importance of this. there are a lot of things about the biden administration policies i could disagree with all day long, but they are not a threat to my freedom. they are not a threat to my family and my future. i get up every morning and have that fight with the administration. i can t have that fight with thugs from a former dictator knocking on my door. i m at a disadvantage there as an american citizen. so there are some important points to be made about this election. i happen to think that is one of them. i hope paul ryan and others will come around and at the end of the day what they do in the privacy of the voting booth is their business, despite what they may say publicly. i m guessing right now mitch mcconnell is tucked into his bed, nodding and agreeing with everything michael is saying. in public he is going to be welcoming donald trump later this week along with fellow senate republicans. how do you think this will go? these two men have not met in person since 2020. they may loathe each other, but they both love power. they both love authority and that is one reason they will continue to do the public display. i want to go back to something michael said that connected the dots in the way that john bolton couldn t. understanding that threat is important because what bolton could not commit to is that trump is a threat to our democracy. it was jarring to me to hear that interview in a post january 6 reality, in an effort to undermine the 2020 election results reality, where trump still refuses to accept those results and his supporters refused to proactively accept the 2024 results and to claim he is not a threat to democracy. it shows a disconnect that again, it aligns with some of the other republican talking points that are completely not based in reality and outlandish. connecting the dots for the american public is critical and i appreciate that the biden campaign has started their outreach campaign to the never trump republicans and crafting a national narrative that will appeal across partisan lines. because understanding the threats. understanding the components of project 2025 is going to be mobilizing factors in the selection. juanita, michael, i appreciate the two of you being here. great to see you both. when we return, pride under attack. we talk about the growing hostility ahead of pride month with the head of glaad when the 11th hour continues. inu i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ingrezza ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. only number-one prescribed ingrezza has simple dosing for td: always one pill, once daily. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington s disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don t take ingrezza if you re allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. take control by asking your doctor about ingrezza. ingrezza chewy, a citi client, uses citi s financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need. right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. the chances of a plane crash 1 in 11 million. you re not going to finish those salted nuts, right? 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here to discuss, sarah kate ellis, president and ceo of glaad. what are we seeing here? i think it has been building. what we have seen the past couple of years is this intensity against our community from politician, from right wing politicians. there have been over 500lgbt bills proposed. only 37 have passed at the state level across the country. the damage, though, is done as soon as those bills are proposed. what the politicians do are filling people with rhetoric, misinformation, and lies about our community. and it is fueling hate. just in the past month, we have seen over 30 attacks on our community. this past weekend, we saw three bomb threats. it is a direct line coming from the anti-lgbtq activists and mostly politicians. we also have companies now. now officially saying no to pride, but quietly pulling back support. why is this happening? i m not seeing that as much. i am seeing that headline. i work with over 300 fortune 500 countries and they are actually not pulling back. i think as a result from last year s pride and the bruhaha over bud light and target. what they are doing is integrating pride more into their every day. taking a 365 day approach versus putting all of their eggs in one basket. i am seeing an increase in commitment. i will tell you why that is. 30% of the next generation are lgbtq. 80% of the next generation identify as allies to the community. if you are a consumer business in america, you need to step up your ally ship. they realize that what they are trying to do is do it in really thoughtful ways. how much does misinformation fuel all of this? i have seen why does pride get a month. while others get a day. we have month that s support women, african americans, aapi. disability rights. where does the misinformation come from that almost makes lgbtq a target of things that are not even based in truth? we have a long history of our community being politicized. it has been going on for decades. where it is being fueled now though is through social media. this is a half of trolls that know how to exploit the social media platforms that spread these lies and misinformation. in fact, at glaad, we do an annual report on social media platforms for the safety of our community. and all of them failed. all the major ones failed. a piece of that we are unsafe is that they spread these lies and misinformation. and then it makes it to mainstream media. and it is absolute nonsense. that is why it is our job to tell the truth every night. it is always a pleasure to see you. thank you for joining us. happy pride month. be right back after a quick break. ack after a quick break. at what cost? 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Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240611



the rachel maddow show starts right now. hi, rachel. hi, yen. thanks very much. much appreciated. thanks to you at home. really happy to have you here. we have an interesting show for you tonight. particularly glad you re here for it. we re going to start a ways back as we sometimes do. when allied soldiers came ashore on the coast of france on the beaches of normandy for the d-day invasion, they opened up a new western front against the nazis in europe. and that of course was a shock to the germans. the operation overlord, the d-day invasion, it relied on the element of surprise. and the germans really were shocked. they had been occupying france for four years at that point. they the installed a collaborationest regime that they assembled from pro-fascist and pro-nazi forces inside france, so the collaborationists and the nazis together were ruling france and they had been for years. there was a french resistance to the nazi rule and the collaborationists, but the nazis and their puppets were definitely in charge. they were actually heading into year five of being in charge. they were really settled in, in france. and then here comes this shock arrival. this invasion. hundreds of thousands, ultimately millions of allied troops landing on the beaches and the cliffs of the northwest of france. and they are clearly planning to take it all back. the d-day invasion, the allied invasion, started on june 6th. now, on this date, on june 10th, 1944, just four days into the d-day invasion, the germans were reacting. they had been, of course, shocked by the initial invasion. but a few days into it, they now realized the scale of what they were up against and had started scrambling their units from all over france, turning all the available german troops in france toward the northwest of that country to try to stop the allied advance. and that included a nazi ss panzer division that had been in the south of franz. that division was ordered to essentially traverse the whole length of the country, head north to where the allies were advancing from the beaches of normandy. and on their way north through france, toward the new allied front lines, the new western front, this panzer division stopped in a village called oradour. pro-nazi french collaborators had told them, they told this panzer unit that the french resistance was active in this town. and they told them that the french resistance in that town had killed a nazi officer. and in response, that panzer unit decided, yes, they were on their way to the north of france to join the new western front and the, you know, the battle for the whole war, to try to shore up the german lines against the big allied invasion, but they decided on their way there, they would stop and do something in oradour. they would destroy that entire village and everyone in it. that panzer unit rounded up every single man, woman, and child in that village. they even rounded up random people who didn t live in the village but were nearby or who had the misfortune to be passing through the village when this nazi unit made this decision. that nazi unit killed every human being in oradour. or everyone they could find. they killed 643 civilians. a vast majority of them women and children. they used machine guns and they burned them alive. they looted the entire village, and then they tore down the village as best they could. they razed it. oradour. this is what it looks like today. still in ruins. the french decided after the war that they would never rebuild. they would leave the ruins, preserve them as they were left at the end of the war, as a memorial to what the nazis did. and we have these photos of what oradour looks like literally today, because this morning, the president of france and the president of germany visited the ruins at oradour to commemorate what they call the martyrdom of that village, to remember what happened in europe, in france, under fascist occupation. now, this is not the first time that french president emmanuel macron has visited oradour. actually, ten days before he was first elected president, he went there. he visited the village just before he was elected president. he visited in the company of the man who was then the last living survivor of that massacre. i said the nazis killed everyone in the village, at least everyone they could find. the nazis did kill over 600 civilians that day, but there were about half a dozen people from the village who, against all odds, in a miracle managed by hook or by crook to survive. the last one of the survivors was in his 90s when he brought emmanuel macron to oradour in 2017. that last survivor has since died. but today, macron went back to the site, to show this place, to germany s president. now, in 1944, about six months after oradour happened, the germans were still hanging on. but thanks in large part to the d-day invasion, they knew by the end of 1944 that they were losing. they were losing to soviet forces in the east, for sure. they were also simultaneously losing to the allied forces coming in from the west. once the allies opened that new western front with the d-day invasion, they started pressing their advantage against the nazis everywhere. not only liberating france, they clearly intend to liberate everywhere the nazis have taken over. they re pressing toward germany itself. hitler knows that his military is on the ropes. it cannot sustain the losses they re taking on both the eastern and western fronts. and so about six months after d-day, about six months after oradour, hitler decides he s going to mount a surprise of his own. he decides he s going to mount a huge german counteroffensive in belgium against the allies. the allies are basically closing in on germany s own borders and when hitler musters hundreds of thousands of men to mount a counteroffensive against them in the forests of belgium, it absolutely is a surprise to the allies. nobody thought germany still had it in them. everybody thought not everybody, but a lot of people thought the war was going to be over by christmas that year. where did the germans muster 400,000, 500,000 men to mount this new counteroffensive, but they did. that german counteroffensive started in mid-december 1944. it began a six-week-long battle that would be the single deadliest battle of the entire war for the u.s. military. aside from just the brutal toll of that battle, that was the battle of the bulge, that battle also came with its own astonishing and unforgettable atrocity. it was another german panzer unit much like the one that killed the entire population of that french village. it was an ss panzer unit in belgium. and they ended up in the very outset of that surprise german counteroffensive, they ended up ambushing a bunch of americans. and the result of it was they took custody of a large group of american prisoners of war, unarmed american p.o.w.s. and these p.o.w.s, again, they had surrendered. they had no weapons. the nazis lined up those americans in a field, the americans have no weapons. they have surrendered. they have their hands above their heads. they re p.o.w.s, but the nazis just massacred them in the field, they mowed them down with machine gun fire. and like at that village of oradour, what is almost as unbelievable as what the nazis did there was the fact there were somehow miraculously some survivors. there were some american gis who had also been lined up in that field, who nevertheless lived. american gis who played dead, who hid under the dead bodies of their comrades, who managed in the end to drag themselves into the woods to get away. and what happened to them? you will not believe me when i tell you this, but it would not be long before a sitting united states senator would vehemently object to those men giving testimony about what they saw. about what they survived, about what happened to their platoon mates, to the other men in that battalion. the other p.o.w.s who were massacred by those nazis. a sitting u.s. senator tried to block the american soldiers who survived that massacre from giving testimony about it in congress. he said the american people shouldn t hear it. he said it would be inflammatory. it would inflame the public against the nazis who killed all of those unarmed american p.o.w.s. i find it absolutely insane to think about, but this became a very strange thing in american domestic politics. i mean, there were unrepentant leftover nazis in germany after the war. they were trying to make the allies and america in particular the bad guys from world war ii and maybe that is understandable when you think about unrepentant nazis who just lost the war, but you would not believe it, the thing that s amazing is not that there were leftover nazis who were trying to do this. the thing you wouldn t believe is they enlisted a lot of americans to help them in that project. including taking a stand against the american soldiers who survived that p.o.w. massacre and demanding that the nazis who did it should be set free. this became a cause celebre in the right wing press at the time. and it helped launch the national career, the rocketship ascendance of arguably the most radical and controversial figure in republican electoral politics in the last 80 years before donald trump. while he was swimming in these very dark waters, darker than what seems possible for something in mainstream american politics he would go on to lead a movement of millions of followers who were increasingly radicalized by his increasingly radical rhetoric and tactics over time. his fellow republicans were both repelled by him, horrified by him, while they also wanted in on some of the massive political energy and fanatical devotion he attracted. they thought very seriously about putting him forward for the presidency, and the reaction among close observers of him and his tactics look so much like what you re seeing in the american press today about the fear of a second trump term, you wouldn t believe that it isn t just a straight up rerun. in his time, the people who stood up against him mostly got mowed down in politics by the strength of his fanatical following. that happened for a very long time. until eventually, ultimately, it stopped happening. and the forces against him prevailed. and i m telling you this for two reasons. number one, this is the thing that i have been working on for the past year. my podcast, rachel maddow presents ultra, now has a season two, and it is out today. episode one is out today. you can get it anywhere you get podcasts. if you don t usually listen to podcasts, if you take out your phone right now, open the camera on your phone, and point it at that weird looking little circular square thing on your screen, you click on the little box that pops up on your phone, it will bring you right there so you can listen to it. you can listen to it for free. it s free to listen to. there are eight episodes of this all together. episode one is out today. i hope you may want to listen. i have been working really hard on it. i m really proud of it, but i hope you like it. i hope you ll check it out. that s one of the easons i m telling you this story. i have been working on this story, i have been working in general on stories about other times in our american history that we have dealt with really terrible threats to the country. where we have confronted really radical people with really radical designs to undo the fundamental things that make us who we are as a country who nevertheless get into political power and attract large followings. this has happened to us before. and the reason i have been working on this for the past couple years, the reason i have been working on these projects is because for me, i feel like i really need to learn this stuff and fast, for me, there is a real urgency to learn these stories now. from when we have contended with terrible challenges before, particularly when we re talking about powerful americans advocating for authoritarianism or just flat out embodying it. particularly when it s about selling factually unhinged conspiratorial lies to the american public and half the public is mortified, mystified by that, but the other half of the public is super energized by it and they not only believe these lies, they kind of become their whole new reason to live. the public gets bifurcated like that into earth one and earth two where some people are based in the reality based community and some people are based in a different place, and that place is emotionally satisfying to them, and radicalizing them, and it takes over their lives. we are living through a moment like that right now with what is ascendant on the american right, but we have lived through it before. and i feel like i m racing to learn these stories about americans who have fought these kinds of fights before us for the simple reason that i feel like i need their ideas about how to fight it. we need their ideas about how to fight these things. we need to see what worked and what didn t when americans faced threats like this before. and it doesn t mean that fighting them always works. sometimes they get away with a lot of this stuff, and sometimes people take on incredible risk and danger to themselves. sometimes people risk their lives or give up their lives to fight these things, but knowing the track record of americans who have stood up against these kinds of dark and authoritarian and anti-democratic forces knowing who else has tried it and what s happened to them is helpful for us calibrating our available responses now. and knowing what to expect when we confront these dark movements. so that is why i have been working on this, and that is why that story is on my mind tonight. but it is also what s on the news right now. i mean, one of the remarkable things about seeing the french president with the german president at the ruins of oradour today in france is that they took that tour of the ruins of that village today, that preserved memorial to what fascism did in europe, they took that tour this morning. just one day after the german far right and the french far right won shockingly large proportions of the vote in the european elections that were held yesterday. in both of those countries, the parties that did so well have ties not only to the old fascist participaties of world war ii era germany and france, they both have current ties, including financial ties, to vladimir putin and russia. when president biden and president macron of france met in france these past few days for the commemoration of the 80th anniversary of d-day, president biden said that he and president macron agreed on a new plan to seize russian assets in the g-7 countries and use those seized russian assets to provide even more support to ukraine. as ukraine continues to struggle against the russian invasion of that country. president biden is just back from france for these d-day commemoration ceremonies and from those meetings with president macron. he s just back but heads back to europe the day after tomorrow to go to the g-sev summit, among other things to rally the other nations to support this new plan, to support ukraine as much as possible including this new plan that he and macron have just agreed to involving seizing russian assets to help ukraine even more. and, you know, in the american aperture here, what s going on in our politics while president biden is trying to, you know, rally the free world, trying to strengthen our alliances as much as possible to lead collective international will against a rogue dictatorship that has invaded one big european country already and has its sights set on more, here at home, literally while president biden and other american leaders were headed off to europe for the 80th anniversary of d-day, while they were heading off to europe for that, what was happening in the american congress? a fifth of the republicans in congress just voted that we should leave our allies altogether. that we should break up the big western alliance, that we should defund nato. and i think nobody really paid attention to this vote because this legislation was put forward by a very fringe member of congress, a member of congress who is known for her publicity stunts and she s therefore she is easy to ignore. but it wasn t just her. 46 republicans voted for this thing. a fifth of the republicans in congress last week voted to defund nato. don t just forget being the leader of the free world, forget the whole idea of there being a free world at all. they saved that for the anniversary of d-day. 46 republicans voting to defund nato. and as radical as that may seem, particularly when you think about where nato came from and why, the wing of the republican party that is pushing for this stuff, i mean, on its face, it seems unlikely they would have such sway. every few days we get a new mugshot of one of their leading lights because so many of them have been charged with crimes. today, it was their presidential candidate s personal lawyer, who has had his law license suspended, who is under indictment, rudy giuliani s mugshot just released today after he was arraigned in arizona. you can put it up on the wall with all of the other maga republican mugshots we have accrued over the past year. their presidential candidate is a convicted felon. today he had to meet with the probation office in new york ahead of his sentences. people at his rallies not only wear tshirts and fly flags that have his mugshot on them, they started carrying signs and wearing shirts that now say they re proudly voting for the convicted felon. at a rally this weekend, their presidential candidate described members of the mob of his supporters who physically attacked congress and injured dozens of police officers, he described them in a speech this weekend as, quote, warriors. his warriors. people who took part in that mob attack on congress. his warriors. while a few days ago, two police officers who were both badly injured fighting hand to hand with that mob to defend congress, to defend the u.s. capitol, those two police officers were jeered and booed by republicans in the pennsylvania state legislature. they jeered them, turned their backs on them and walked out. these are two officers who survived that attack, they were literally injured fighting for their country, defending our seat of government against a violent attack. but the republicans who jeered at them and turned their backs on them and walked out, they want the attackers freed. and they don t want to hear what these survivors of the attack had to say. don t want to hear from the survivors and the witnesses. you want the attackers set free. we are going through some weird stuff right now. but we have gone through weird stuff before. and i do think that we can learn from it and that we urgently need to. that s why i have been working on all these projects. that s why i ve got this new podcast out and i hope you listen. but it s not just the distant past. in the very recent past when we got donald trump in the white house in the first place, you might remember what preceded that shock election result here in the united states in 2016. our shock presidential election result in 2016 was preceded that year by some shocking and surprisingly right wing election results in europe. including the brexit vote in britain which happened just months before trump s surprise presidential victory here. i asked ben rhodes to please join us here tonight in the wake of what is now, again, another round of what seemed to be surprisingly right wing election results in europe this weekend. was it right in 2016 to see right wing election results in europe as a harbinger of what was coming for us in the fall of 2016? as president biden balances his campaign responsibilities right now with back-to-back trips to europe, he just got back from europe, he heads back to europe again on wednesday. do the election results from europe right now, this weekend, have hallmarks that tell us anything about what to expect here and about how weird this is all going to get? president biden clearly sees our connections to europe right now as absolutely key to the future of the world. does what s going on in european politics right now tell us something to expect about the future of our world here? joining us now is ben rhodes. he s former deputy national security adviser to president obama, cohost of the pod save the world podcast. really great to see you. thanks for making time to be here tonight. good to see you. first, let me ask you for some of our viewers who may not have paid close attention to what was happening in the european elections this weekend, let me ask you two questions about them. do you think they re important for us to pay attention to? and can you just give us a rough characterization of what happened in those elections? sure. these were elections for the european parliament. so the european union wide parliament, so the only election that takes place every few years in which all of europe votes. it s a good barometer of where opinion is in europe. the two headlines are the far right made noticeable gains in the two largest countries in europe, france and germany. in france, the national front party, the far right party that used to be on the fringes of french politics, emerged as by far the largest vote getter in this election and to build on what you re saying, this is a party that is not only far right, they have ties to russia. they have gotten a $10 million loan from russia in the past decade. in germany, the afd party, which has ties that go back into the kind of neonazi past of germany, they got over 15% of the vote, not a huge total, but very alarming given the source here. i want to be clear, in other parts of europe, the center did hold. i think the real concerning factor is in the two most important countries, france and germany, we saw these far right gains. do you think that it s right to look back at 2016 and see some of what was going on in politics in europe as a harbinger for the shock election result we got in the fall of 2016 when trump won? do you think these election results should be read as a harbinger of what s coming down the pike for us this year? i absolutely do, rachel. the commonality between the brexit vote, the vote by the uk to leave the european union in 2016 and the trump election was that it was a it was a surprise. people did not think brexit was going to win the campaign and they campaigned on a kind of right wing populist message. the slogan was take back control. they ran against globalists and liberal elites and against immigration and was very trumpy in its message, frankly. it kind of foreshadowed what we ended up dealing with in the fall here. i think the warning in this election, and you ask mead a question when i came on to talk about my book a few years ago about far right parties and their commonalities around the world, you asked what lesson should we learn. i always think about that. the lesson i take from this one is that their incumbent parties in germany and france that have defended essentially the status quo, emmanuel macron has been a defender of the european union. olaf scholz has been a defender of the liberal order. people are not listening to that message right now. you cannot defeat these parties, these populist insurgents be being the defenderoffs the stat status quo, but you have to tap into people s dissatisfaction with globalization, dissatisfaction with inequality. sense that things are slipping out of control. it s not enough to say we re the responsible adults here. you have to kind of get down and have a different message for how things are going to change. i think that s the warning sign that joe biden should hear, not enough to run on status quo here. not enough to defend even the things we think are very important. you have to meet people where they are, and people are frustrated. ben rhodes, former deputy national security adviser to president obama. ben, thank you for making the time. i feel like when we need to like widen the lens a lot and look at america in the world, you re almost always one of the first people i think of. thank you for being here. thanks, rachel. i can t wait to check out the podcast. i appreciate it. thank you. we have much more ahead here tonight. do stay with us. shop etsy for thoughtful pieces made by real people to bring a little something extra to the ordinary. find items that add wow to walls and make you fall in love with your family room again. when you want one-of-a-kind pieces to refresh your home. etsy has it. sometimes your work shirt needs to be for more than just work. like when it needs to be a big, soft shoulder to cry on. which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, 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( ) ( ) this one will never see the light of day. all right. nitty-gritty here. in the aftermact of the 2020 election, georgia became this kind of benchmark for principled republicans refusing to go along with improper, un-american machinations from president trump. governor brian kemp, brad raffensperger, two very conservative republicans, both nevertheless stood up to personal pressure from trump to overturn president biden s win in georgia. and of course, all that pressure trump brought to bear on georgia republicans and the ways in which those republicans resisted, that formed the basis for fulton county district attorney fani willis filing a huge rico case against trump and 18 of his codefendants in georgia. that s one story of the state of georgia after the 2020 election. republicans standing up, the record of them standing up and what they had to stand up against forming the basis for this sprawling, damning criminal indictment. the other story of georgia since that election is all the work that pro-trump republicans have done to make sure nothing like that ever happens again. to make sure nobody can ever again get in the way of trump seizing georgia s 16 electoral votes, no matter what the votes say. the most obvious thing georgia republicans have done is use every tool at their disposal to derail fani willis prosecution of trump. in the latest development in that three republican appointed judges have just put the whole case on hold while they take their time considering whether fani willis should be disqualified from the case. thus guaranteeing that the georgia prosecution will definitely not go forward against trump before the election. but that s only the start. in georgia s most populous county, fulton county, one republican elections board member last month refused to certify the primary results there. because you know, elections are scary. with the help of lawyers from a pro-trump think tank, she has now filed a lawsuit seeking the power to block the certification of elections which would of course throw november s results in georgia into chaos. which is presumably the point. meanwhile, just north of fulton county, republicans recently started agitating to take over an elections board in cherokee county. now, the board there, like other counties in georgia, has always been evenly split between democrats and republicans, but republicans in cherokee county are no longer okay with that. they wanted a full scale republican takeover, when that was blocked, they comp with an ingenious new plan. they decided they would replace one of the democratic commissioners who had been nominated with their own choice. their own choice for a democrat. a new guy that none of the local democrats have ever heard of. but don t worry, the republicans who run cherokee county swear this guy they picked is definitely a democrat. the atlanta journal constitution reported that the republican cherokee county commission chairman, quote, assured the board that the new member is a democrat, even if the local democratic party is unfamiliar with him. i assure you, he s definitely on your team. i know you have never met and i picked him, but trust me. pinky promise. meanwhile, at the state elections board in georgia, republicans there just started writing a new rule that would allow county elections boards to conduct a, quote, reasonable inquiry before they certify any election results. so instead of signing off on election results as county election boards are now required to do by law, they would be empowered instead to investigate those results as they see fit. the journal constitution notes that, quote, the proposed rule doesn t say what a reasonable inquiry would entail before certifying an election. yeah, why would you specify that? you want every election denying republican county elections board member in georgia just making it up as they go along, calling their own behavior reasonable. while the presidential election potentially hangs in the balance. speaking of that state elections board, one of its republican members was ousted last month, one of its republican members was ousted, after trump reportedly spent months calling georgia republicans insisting that that election board member had to go. because that person was not backing trump s lies about the 2020 election. and so of course, the guy had to go. trump s personal involvement in remaking the georgia state elections board is just one of the revelations in new reporting from rolling stone. their new piece is headlined georgia is our laboratory. inside trump s plan to rig 2024. it details how trump s allies are working to make sure there will not be a straightforward election result in georgia this year, given georgia s swing state status that absolutely could be a deciding factor in how the election is going to go down. what is happening there? what is happening to try to stop what is happening there? one of the reporters on that rolling stone piece joins us next. stay with us. ay with us citi s industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries. and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. we re trying to save the planet with nuggets. empower families across the globe. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. your best defense against erosion and cavitieseat. is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. love you. have a good day, behave yourself. like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. she works a lot, a whole lot. we don t get to eat in the early morning. we just wait till we get to the school. so, yeah. right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to help them has never been greater. when you join your friends, neighbors and me to support no kid hungry, you ll help hungry kids get the food they need. if we want to take care of our children, then we have to feed them. your gift of just $0.63 a day, only $19 a month at helpnokidhungry.org right now will help provide healthy meals and hope. we want our children to grow and thrive and to just not have to worry and face themselves with the struggles that we endure. nobody wants that for their children. like if these programs didn t exist me and aj, we wouldn t probably get lunch at all. please call or go online right now with your gift of just $19 a month. and when you use your credit card, you ll receive this limited edition t-shirt to show you re part of the team that s helping feed kids and change lives. if you re coming in hungry, there s no way you can listen to me teach, do this activity, work with this group. so starting their day with breakfast and ending their day with this big, beautiful snack is pretty incredible. whether kids are learning at school or at home, your support will ensure they get the healthy meals they need to thrive. because when you help feed kids, you feed their hopes, their dreams, and futures. kids need you now more than ever. so please call this number right now to join me in helping hungry kids or go online to helpnokidhungry.org and help feed hungry kids today. . the ultimate authority is the voter. the secretary of state was re-elected by the voters of the state by a larger margin than any other excuse me. order. order. by a larger margin than any other state-wide office. the voters order. have demonstrated their faith and therefore i do not believe that at present, we have the authority to oversee or investigate the secretary of state. georgia s board of elections gathered to discuss larging an investigation into georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger who had the chimerty to say no when donald trump insisted he flip the results of the election. the lone democrat spoke out against doing this unprecedented investigation. she was loudly shouted down. in a new article titled georgia is our laboratory, inside trump s plan to rig 2024, rolling stone reports this. quote, the former president and his supporters have been making concrete step by step progress in shaping electoral processes to his benefit. across the state, maga die hards are devoting considerable resources to purging voting rolls, intimidating election officials, employing dirty tricks and ousting appointees who haven t been initiated into the cult of trump. it s the state where the republican party has total control over the levers of power. trump loving elements of the georgia gop have wielded that advantage in a crusade to turn election conspiracy theories into policies. it s an alarmingly anti-democratic experiment that trump planned and much of the republican party hope to take national. joining us now is adam ronsly, the reporter co-by-lines on the sprawling piece. thank you for being here. thanks for having me. so what are some of the steps that trump and his allies have taken to change the electoral process in georgia? so one of the most alarming ones that a source who has discussed this issue with trump told us, a republican attorney, is they re planning to challenge the election result regardless of the result. you know, we think of the threat to elections from trump s behavior in 2020 as only occurring in the event that trump loses. you know, at the current state of polling, trump is ahead in georgia, if you believe the polling, but what republican attorney who discussed this with trump told us is that, quote, you can t let the left get away with this cheating just because it didn t succeed, air quotes around cheating. and the plan is to challenge the result regardless of the outcome. and the intent behind that is essentially a permanent delegitimization of the election process. it s heads, i win, tails you lose. and i think you had mentioned this a little bit in your intro, is that one of the things people should be paying close attention to is that refusal to certify in the fulton county board of elections in the presidential primary. because one of the things that s very, very notable about that is that the attorneys who filed that lawsuit work for america first policies institute, which is a very trumpy organization filled with former trump folks. and what you see in those kinds of processes is the legal january 6th in miniature. essentially you re taking someone who is, you know, acting beyond their brief and trying to essentially insert themselves into the counting and, you know, assessment of vote tallies. adam, is this actually a fight in georgia? you note, i think, importantly, that georgia s a place where republicans control all of the levers of power. we just played the sound of one democratic member of the state elections board getting shouted down when she objected to what they were trying to do in terms of targeting raffensperger. is this fight joint where there is pushback against what they re doing or are they essentially running the table by changing processes to their own benefit? you know, they definitely have quite a built-in advantage. and i think that s why georgia relative to other battleground states is particularly interesting because it is more so than perhaps any other state a fight for the soul of the republican party. particularly when it comes to their faith in free and fair elections. and yeah, even folks like brian kemp, who was an absolute obstacle to trump s attempt to, you know, illegally overturn the election in georgia, brian kemp signed sb-202, a law that allows for a range of, you know, sort of procedural chicanery. joe biden called it jim crow in the 21st century. you know, even folks who have proven themselves to be obstacles to some of the more overt aspects of it sometimes will just go along to get along. and so they definitely do have an advantage. and they are running the table in certain ways, but you do see folks like you mentioned earlier, like ed lindsay, whose resignation letter we obtained in the story. people like that, you still do have these kind of principled republicans who are willing to stand up for what they believe in, but as you saw with the case of ed, you know, he had to resign under a great deal of pressure from not just president trump but from the grassroots of the party who believe in a lot of election conspiracies. yeah, the bare fact that a presidential candidate is personally lobbying to remove individual state elections board members ought to be on the front page of every paper of the country. been reported by adam, reporter at rolling stone. adam, the by-line reporters on the piece, georgia is our laboratory, thank you for helping us understand this. love to have you back. thanks so much for having me, rachel. i appreciate it. we ll be right back. stay with us. time stops. 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( ) gain flings. seriously good scent. let s get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it s the martha stewart of soil. to give your teeth a dentist clean feeling. start with a round brush head. add power. and you ve got oral-b. round cleans better by surrounding each tooth to remove 100% more plaque. for a superior clean. oral-b. brush like a pro. the promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we can t do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union. will you join us? call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day, will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for free speech, liberty and justice. your support is more urgently needed than ever. reproductive rights are on the line and we are looking at going backwards. we have got to be here. we ve got to be strong to protect those rights. so please join the aclu now. call or go to my aclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you ll receive this special we the people t-shirt member card magazine and more to show you re part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for everyone to have a voice and equal justice. and we will never stop because we the people, means all of us. so please call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. could have been the heat, i suppose. temperatures were over 100 degrees at his outdoor campaign rally in las vegas yesterday. so hot, six people had to go to the hospital, and another two dozen had to get medical treatment on site. could have been the heat, i suppose. could also maybe have been that he was nervous about the fact that he was less than 24 hours away from his first meeting with his new york state probation officer. that meeting could be particularly nerve-racking for him because, you know, one of the things a probation officer asks you after you re convicted of felonies is if you have been associating with anyone who has a criminal record. that s worth noting because if he is ultimately sentenced to probation next month while he s on probation, he would not be allowed to associate with anyone with a criminal record. for a lot of people, that wouldn t be a big deal. for him, that s a big deal. that particular restriction eats away at his very close social circle. so maybe that was all distracting him. i don t know. he maybe had a lot i don t know. whatever the reason, he decided to venture into new territory in his campaign speech yesterday, less than five months out from the election. this is an important swing state. he decided with the land locked citizens of las vegas needed to hear about from him in order to be persuaded to vote for him was his fear of boats. heavy boats, boats with batteries near sharks. you know, nevada sharks. i know you have heard it happened. you may have seen a headline or scrolled past it on a social media feed. have you actually watched it? uncut, straight through, watched it unfold? it is very much worth watching. it s astonishing. my favorite part is the people you can see at the rally behind him who are really trying to follow along but who clearly have no earthly idea what uncle ramble standers is on about. just watch this. what would happen if the boat sank from its weight? and you re in the boat, and you have this tremendously powerful battery, and the battery is now underwater, and there s a shark that s approximately ten yards over there? by the way, a lot of shark attacks lately. did you notice that? i watched some guys justifying it today. well, they weren t really that angry. they bit off the young lady s leg because of the fact that they were they were not hungry but they misunderstood who she was. these people are crazy. he said there s no problem with sharks. they just didn t really understand a young woman swimming. really got desmaded and a lot of other people. i said so there s a shark ten yards away from the boat. ten yards. or here. do i get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking. do i stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted or do i jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted because he didn t know the answer. he said, nobody has ever asked me that question. i said i think it s a good question. i think there s a lot of electric current coming through the water, but what i would do if there was a sharko you get electrocuted, i would take electrocution every time. i m not getting near the shark. we re going to end it for boats. we re going to end that, we re going to end it for boats. we re going to end it for boats. vote accordingly. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter s technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. 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Transcripts For MSNBC Inside With Jen Psaki 20240611



weeks. the israelis want a campaign. with lebanon even with yemen, we have seen the increased tensions. deploying troops and naval forces. none of that will stop until there is a cease-fire in gaza. s almost there is a line drawn, diplomacy on any of these friends continue. the biden administration s credit has been cleared. they don t want to see a war but it is not up to them as we have seen with the israelis on the hostage cease-fire deal as well. so i think the risk is extremely high. and lebanon is the war of another magnitude. thank you so much. . there is a lot going on tonight. the former president of the united states and presumptive republican nominee had a meeting with the probation officer today, which i guess is the sort of thing we just have to get use to seeing these days. we will talk about what may have come up during the meeting and how it could impact his sentencing coming up in a month. pennsylvania governor josh schapiro was going to join me to talk about one of the biggest political questions of the moment. how should joe biden and democrats be talking about trump s conviction and how much? we will start with the supreme court. in a mountain of ethics scandals that just got bigger, and just get bigger because of a woman named lauren winsor. in case you don t know who she is, she is a progressive activist known to approach her public and figures and pretend she is an ally, statements and then record her targets making candid comments. comments recorded by lauren winsor at the supreme court historical society s annual dinner earlier this month, the supreme court justice samuel alito offered his assessment of the political and ideological struggle in america. i don t know that we can negotiate with the left in the way that needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think that it is a matter of, like, winning. i think your probably right. on one side of the other, one side or the other is going to win. i don t know. i mean, there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully, but it s difficult, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can t be compromised. they really can t be compromised. so it s not like you can split the difference. one side or the other is going to win. now heard in a vacuum by someone, those comments may not seem particularly striking. but remember samuel alito is one of nine justices on the supreme court. the highest court in our country. it is supposed to conduct itself with utmost fairness and impartiality in interpreting our constitution and adjudicating the laws. and one of the justices, samuel alito, you just heard him, as telling a stranger at a crowded event, that he believes that one political side is going to win. that there is no place for compromised. and for anyone who has followed samuel alito s time on the court, there is no secret to what side the justice firm and thinks he is on. look at the past few weeks. he has refused to recuse himself from a generous six case in the trump immunity case sitting before the court currently. even after reports that his homes displayed flights with right wing political symbolism including an upside down american flag in the days after january 6th. samuel alito, who built a reputation over the course of years, has been tough on crime and generally unser but that it to criminal defendants and also has a newfound empathy for generally six defendants of all people and donald trump. during or go arguments in two cases. take for example, the case of a january 6th defendant. sim allele used costumes the justice department to question people in the capital attack. he suggested that if the court does not intervene, prosecutors could seek to use it against people involved in these will demonstrations like those that take place in a courtroom from time to time. but the protest is clearly not at all same as people are smashing windows and doors to invade the capital and causing members of congress and the republican vice president of the united states to flee for their lives. in the face of multiple ethics scandals, we have been talking about involving undisclosed gifts from her publican mega- donors to members of the supreme court, samuel alito has been unapologetic telling the wall street journal late last year that the quote no provision in the constitution gives congress the authority to regulate the supreme court period. look, fairness and impartiality in both appearance and action are the principles judges are supposed to follow. especially in the highest court of the land. and at least at some point, samuel alito knew that. take a listen to an answer from his confirmation hearing back in 2006. to believe there is any room for a judge s own value or personal beliefs when he or she interprets the constitution? judges have to be careful not to inject their own views into the interpretation of the constitution. and for that matter, into the interpretation of statutes. that is not the job we are given. that is not the authority we are given. that is not the authority we are given. it is not the job we are given. alito knows or at least knew then what his job entailed. and despite all the actions and statements, he also apparently can t stand those who claim he is not living up to those standards. as he told the wall street journal, everyone is free to express disagreement with our decisions and to criticize our reasoning as they see fit. but saying or implying that the court is becoming an illegitimate institution or questioning our integrity cross is an important line. see, justice alito wants to be revered as an impartial judge. just call balls and strikes as they are supposed to. but as this new tape and his time on the bench have shown, especially over the last several weeks and months, he is actually more of a player, actively engaged in one side s struggle to win. so is giving us every reason to expect this from him, given all the actions. it also doesn t mean it is something we should or need to accept. this is the former president of the naacp legal defense fund and joins me now. i always want to know what you are thinking. but as i listen to these tapes today, i wanted to know, what is share anable thinking. we talk to a becoming two things. how big of a deal is this? i think it s a big deal. i think it s a big deal in the cumulative sense and as you point out in your opening, this is not a colloquy that floats around in the air that is surrounded by plenty of context. we have seen all these statements from justice alito, not only in his decisions but when he went to rome after the dobbs decision. we heard him in very similar ways. what is it that is disturbing about this particular excerpt of the conversation? i think there are two things. one, i think is the way in which he was bantering back and forth with this woman who he did know was taping him in a way that suggested sympathy to her position. she was saying some pretty extreme things. probably the worst of it is when she said that we have to work to move this country back toward godliness. and he said, i agree with you. to me, that is just a very shocking statement. i don t think that is his charge as a supreme court justice to suggest that he believes the country needs to move toward godliness. she spoke often of what it was like in the past and that we need to return to some period in which things were more moral pick and he was agreeing with her. i don t know what period they were referring to. were they referring to a period in which there was much more religious talk in american life but there was also talk about keeping black people out of schools? what was the time period? i think the reason this is important is because the standard is a reasonable person standard. and justice alito refused to recuse himself from a variety of cases. said it is because a reasonable person, knowing all the facts of that is what he said about the flight controversy. but when we probe, we realize we don t know all the facts and the facts he has told us are not necessarily that accurate facts. we learned that from the flag flying issue when justice alito gave us a timeline that is not up. now, the reasonable person would reasonably believe perhaps that this justice was not impartial and that is the standard for recusal. but we will never get there unless parties actually file motions to recuse and that is i am hoping that this will show the united states, which is the party and the trump privilege case and others, that they have to have the courage to demand that these justices come forward in the context of recusal practice and explain themselves. we are not going to get it from sending letters to the justices we are not going to get it from having the justices just recuse themselves because they won t do it. we need to get really serious. and of course we need hearing from the senate judiciary committee so we can get to the bottom of this. it is quite serious. quite disturbing. quite alarming. and it is not a legitimate question the legitimacy of the court we have had this barrage of across the line conduct and misstatements and disclosures that would call into question the impartiality of any court. one of the things that was striking to me too is how he blames the erosion of trust in the court. what he blames it on. he blames it on all sorts of things. i was reminded of this today. he said this in 2023. and then talk to you about it on the other side. it is easy to blame the media. but i do blame them because they do nothing but criticize us. it is pretty rich, given his actions in his own words. it is not the first time he blame somebody else. his wife. everyone attacking him. what is that about? you were talking about accountability. people watching, what should they be doing if they are just outraged about this as well? i find this just really mortifying. and embarrassed for the court. we hear it with clarence thomas as well when he talks about the nastiness in washington d.c. and we hear it with alito. it is the media that eroded trust in the supreme court. no, it is the supreme court that eroded trust in the supreme court. in this kind of teenage refusal to take responsibility for their own actions is really incredibly alarming and disturbing and i put that at the feet of chief justice roberts. he is running the court. if i were running in institution and something extraordinary happens and like what happened in the dobbs case, which is something that never happened before in the history of the court, and a decision was leaked out to the public, i wouldn t just be trying to get to the bottom of who leaked it as vigorously as possible. i would want to understand what i created or what we created in our culture that encouraged such a breach of culture and protocol. all of these things should require the court to self reflect. to look at themselves. why do you have a justice on the court like clarence thomas who is not making the appropriate disclosures? we know they are appropriate because he is making them now that he has been found out. this has nothing to do with the media. the media is doing its job. in fact, the media has often been quite kind to the supreme court including around this flag issue which we had not heard about until three years late. it is not the media. these justices have to grow up and stop being stubborn teenagers and take responsibility for their own actions. this is where the leadership of the chief comes in here and when the chief allows a code of conduct, a voluntary code, as he allowed several months ago, a code so much more weak than the code that holds all other federal judges, he is essentially allowing and creating this culture of impunity in which they create rules that accommodate the actions they have already taken. so we have a real problem, ethical problem on the supreme court appeared to be honest with you, i blame us. i blame congress. we have failed. we have counted on the good behavior and the norms of the supreme court instead of putting in place real rules that they have to follow. and congress does have the power to be able to issue a code of ethics for the united states supreme court and they should do so. we cannot blame this just on the justices. we can t blame it on trump. we can t blame it on anything else but our believes that norms were enough. they are not enough as we are learning across the united states government and we have to get serious about what kinds of protections we need in place for the integrity of our nation s highest court. a lot of homework, including for chief justice roberts. thank you as always for joining me this evening. really appreciate it. coming up, governor josh shapiro joins me live to talk about donald trump s promises of revenge. first, the nominee had a meeting with his probation officer today. we will tell you what he was likely asked about and how it could affect his sentencing. christie greenberg is a former deputy chief of the criminal division in the southern district of new york and joins me in 60 seconds. seconds. let s get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it s the martha stewart of soil. today, donald trump met with the probation officer had of his sentencing for his 34 felony convictions in new york city. and the biden campaign cochair reminded me yesterday that this is one of those times where we need to pause and reflect on the extraordinary moment we are in. can we just stop on that fact. i will talk about the debate and a second. a guy that wants to be president of the united states first test to go sit down with his probation officer. that is just an astounding statement that sometimes people walk by. i don t think most americans are going to walk by that. he is completely right. we cannot just breeze by this stuff. trump s probation interview today happened virtually from mar-a-lago which is not typical. these meetings typically happen in person. but he is not a typical person who was just convicted either. but the interview itself is standard procedure for anyone convicted of a felony in new york. and one standard question trump may have been asked is whether he associates with criminals. you know, other convicted felons like steve bannon and oliver stone and his other buddies. we should not forget how extraordinary this moment is. kristi greenberg is the former deputy chief of the criminal division in the southern district of new york and joins me now. thank you so much. you tweeted today. i will start there. that trump would try to convince the probation officer not to recommend a jail sentence. but you said probation should reject the argument. how does that conversation exactly go down during one of these meetings? i think what you probably saw this was just 30 minutes. a short interview. you probably saw todd blanche taking the lead to try to highlight positive aspects of donald trump s character that they think or mitigating circumstances and things that they think will show he is amenable to supervision. so they will say, look, this criminal conduct which he denies, there is no victim here. but they need to look closer. we are victims. the american people are victims, not getting information that he was paying off a pornography start to make sure she didn t share that could have affected the election outcome. other things i think he will focus on are, i was the former president of the united states. i performed a great public service and you should take that into account. but it is also aggravating in the circumstance because he committed some of this crime like signing the checks to reimburse michael cohen right in the oval office. you could argue that. and he will point to the fact that he is a first-time offender. you know who else is a first- time offender? michael cohen, and he got sentenced to jail for the same conduct. allen weisselberg is essentially the same old one year apart. a lot of the factors that i expect todd blanche tried to highlight today in his interview, really it is going to be on the prosecutors to make their case separately to the probation office in presenting the fact that the trial record shows all the gag order violations and to show he is not following the court orders and he certainly won t follow the orders of probation. a lot of things to argue. i wanted to ask you, i mentioned one of the standard lines of questioning during one of these probation meetings. whether or not the person convicted of a felony associates with criminals. trump has a number of people who happen to fall into that category. i presume he is going to say no. i don t know what he said but what happens if he does associate with convicted criminals? are there repercussions? there are. there if he were sentenced to probation, there would be conditions to that probation term. among them is he cannot associate with other convicted felons. and so, steve bannon for example, is somebody that was convicted for criminal contempt charge and it has a trial that will start in a few months before the judge on a separate fraud case. with someone like that, someone who he has not pardoned because he is pardoned a number of his other criminal associates, for someone he is not pardoned, i would think he would not be able to associate. these are people that like we are involved with his campaign and that he would want to associate with. so we figure he will try to do that through intermediaries if he is sentenced to probation. quite a time to be alive, kristi greenberg. thank you for explaining this to us. that is always helping us to understand. i appreciate it. donald trump is not going to be able to append democracy on his own. he will need help. and a lot of help is available. we will introduce you to someone who could be his chief of staff and who has chilling plans for a second term. later, governor josh shapiro joins me to talk about all the ways the rule of law will be on the ballot in 2024. we are back after a quick break. so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just from a year out in the sun. i m still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. i did not want a dramatic change. i wanted something subtle. and i m really, really happy with the results. it s still me, but with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow s feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. they say we should stop eating so much meat. as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren t quitters. impossible. we re solving the meat problem with more meat. i bought the team! kevin.? 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every d.a. starting investigations right now? when donald trump gets elected, should he lock them up? no question. should there be a list of democrats that go to jail? 100%. it is a terrible path they are leading us to. and it is very possible that it is going to have to happen to them. in that description, as you just heard, it is all about karma. it is an eye for an eye. fighting fire with fire. that is the story they are telling over and over again. and it is one that far too many headliners are running with. as a near public had, in the media, the story tends to be framed as follows. will trump seek revenge for his legal travails or won t he? . it implies that he is bound to do to democrats what was done to him. you see, obviously, there is a big difference between what happens to trump and what he is promising to do to democrats or anybody who he is mad at. despite with the former president and his allies claim, trump was legitimately investigated, indicted, tried and convicted unanimously by a jury of his peers. 12 everyday americans. there was a legal basis and evidence for all of it. all presented during a six-week trial. not trying to hold people accountable for actual wrongdoing but reshape the american justice system and make it a political tool to go after democrats or anyone who has done trump wrong. political prosecutions were a major goal for the maga movement long before trump got indicted or convicted. i was reminded of this this week in. the washington post published an incredibly eye popping piece on the influential figure in trump s orbit that you might not be familiar with. for what it is worth, i had never heard of him either. the former director of the office of management and budget. and his name is russ vote. according to the piece, he is a potential chief of staff for a second trump term and could wield a lot of power. a self-proclaimed christian nationalist to crafted parts of the heritage foundation s project 2025 on how to remake the executive branch a trump presidency. then back in september of 2022, before trump got indicted or enter the presidential race, he wrote an essay saying that the left to drive america into a post- constitutional moment. saying it was time for the right to reinterpret the constitution and a radical new way. he encouraged conservatives to throw off precedents and legal paradigms that have wrongly developed over the last 200 years. and their place according to the post, he laid out plans for donald trump to deploy the military for civil unrest and use more control over the justice department and assert the power to hold congressional appropriations. that is just on trump s first day back in office. let s pause on that. is not calling for accountability through due process of the law to hold people accountable. he wants to reshape the system for the purpose of punishing trump s perceived enemies. last year, he told the heritage foundation crowd that the department of justice is not an independent agency. and if anyone brings up in a policy meeting in the white house, i want them out of the meeting. here s the larger picture. outside of the week to week news cycle and the latest republican reactions, the republican line of fight fire with fire that you hear over and over again is really just cover. framing a plan to overhaul the justice system and executive branch at large. and by the way, this plan completely predates trump s convictions and indictments and what he had in mind all along. pennsylvania governor josh shapiro is standing by and join say next. we are back after a quick break. join cken, cr ies all wrapped up these wrapare amaz people can hear my thoughts? 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there is a trial and a jury finds someone innocent or guilty? or do we prefer a country where he president uses the justice department as his personal law firm? are we okay with the current system where every american is accountable to the same set of laws? or do we prefer a country where the president can just prosecute whomever he chooses simply because he does not like them? the election will be about a lot of things no question. but that is definitely one of them. joining me now is pennsylvania governor josh shapiro. he was previously the state s attorney general. i m grateful you are here with me. i want to start with what i laid out in the earlier block. basically, this idea that donald trump and his allies are bowing what they are telling supporters. simply fighting fire with fire. you are doing something with our guy and we are going to go back to you. but to me, when you look at the specifics of the plan, it feels like it is not exactly the right description. it is not just revenge but a plan in my view to reshape the system and go after their enemies. and last week, you said something that really struck me. you said i m scared to death if he is in charge with the system. is a strong statement. i want to see what you anticipate or expect. what worries you about what could happen to the system? i m deeply concerned by the system. it is why we should not put the country at risk by putting donald trump back in charge of the justice system or back in charge of the military. donald trump came out of those 34 convictions doing what he always does when he gets in legal trouble. kind of a cut and paste job, if you will. and a room with us well from my time as attorney general. he complains. he bemoans the fact that he lost and he makes up excuses and tries to pipit away from personal responsibility. remember, i was attorney general in pennsylvania where he and his cronies and allies took us to court 43 different times to try to stop certain people from voting and stop the votes from being cast. by the way, he went 0-43. we went 43-0 unprotected the rule of law and the will of the people. and now donald trump wants to come back. as he said, exact revenge. the idea he would be put in charge of the justice system and have people surrounding him that that should scare all americans. it is another example of the kind of chaos he would inflict on the country if he was given the opportunity to lead this nation. we have always been a nation that respects the rule of law and respects the institutions. donald trump has tried to undermine our faith in one another and our faith in the institutions. we didn t let him get away with it in 2020 and i hope and pray we won t let him get away with it in 2024. i will be doing everything in my political power here in pennsylvania to ensure he is not successful and the institutions stand and hold. let me ask you about something you just alluded to which is the takeover of the justice system. i think people hear that and they think it is the reshuffling of the government and what does it actually mean? i talked about this influential figure apparently and trump residence world. and could end of being his chief of staff of for trump was reelected. who knows? this is a man who openly says he does not believe the department of justice is an independent agency. i just want to ask you, what is the danger of that quick sometimes i think it feels like just bureaucracy in washington but it is much more than that. it is a lot more than bureaucracy. dangerous if he controls a bureaucracy as well. think about the justice department. he would have the power to criminally prosecute people who didn t do anything wrong but are just his enemies. go after companies that he disagreed with the products they are selling or the manner in which they are conducting themselves and to use the justice department to strip away people s liberties, rights and freedoms and undermine the constitution. ignore the courts and essentially just have his way with good people of this nation. and it should scare the hell out of everybody. remember in 2016 ever donald trump won and then took office in 2017, he and most people around him did not know what the hell they were doing and there were still a few people around him that provided some guardrails for his chaotic conduct. now those people that might provide the guardrails are gone and a lot of the dangerous people around him know how the bureaucracy works. they know how the justice system works. they know how the military works. and if he is given the opportunity to lead this nation again with those people around him, who want to do danger and take away your fundamental freedoms, that should scare the hell out of everybody and that is not the kind of chaos we want in this country. it is such an important point. it is the people that know how to manipulate and it is also the plans being written. a lot of the more online. keeping with the legal discussion here, i want to ask about the supreme court. at the top of the hour, we talked about the supreme court and specifically, justice samuel alito. and this audio come he agreed there should be a fight to return our country to a place of godliness. this comes after the reporting of a flag outside of his house that has been a symbol associated with january 6th and serious ethical scandals around justice thomas and a lot of things. it feels like there is a credibility crisis for the supreme court. i just want to ask you, what is the solution here? remember, this is the court that donald trump packed in order to take away woman s right to choose. in order to make my daughter and other women out there have fewer rights today then they were born with. so this is purposeful on donald trump residence part, to pack the court with these people that want to restrict our freedom. people that have their own agendas. and justice alito, samuel alito, is showing his agenda by the way he flies his flags and apparently the way he runs his mouth as well. what the american people need to do is take that into consideration when they go vote this november. do you really want to give donald trump the ability to appoint more samuel alito as opposed to the court or more clarence thomas is to the court. you want to give him the ability to put more people on the court who will take away our fundamental freedoms? remember that justice thomas wrote that abortion is just the beginning. the very fundamental reasoning or foundation or reasoning they used to overturn roe v wade could be applied in other ways. it could be used to restrict your ability to marry who you love or undermine your ability to be able to go out and take the medications that you and your doctor want you to take. i really fear that this was just the beginning. and if donald trump is given the ability to lead this nation again and put more of those kinds of justices on the court, it will not only set us back for four years but it will set us back for 40 years. the stakes are so high in the selection. and while donald trump and joe biden s names are on the ballot, this is a binary choice. and don t let anybody tell you anything else. there a bunch of randoms on the ballot that have no chance of winning. this is a binary choice between donald trump and joe biden. it is not about those two. it is the kind of country want for ourselves. it is whether we value freedom and care about our institutions and whether we believe we have to move forward to brighter days or whether we will go back to a very dark time. this election is a referendum and a reflection on all of us. and we have a responsibility to turn out and to get others to turn out who will stand up against the kind of extremism we have seen on the supreme court and in the white house with donald trump and instead stand up for freedom and for fundamental values as americans and continue to move our country forward. before we let you go, i have to ask you about pennsylvania. you know the politics of your state. you know them extremely well. we have seen it. it has not been that long since the convictions. we have seen a little bit of impact in the polls. there are a lot of things that will be on the ballot and on voter mines. as you are talking to voters and knowing your state as you do, you think trump s conviction will be something that helps people to decide who are on the fence at this state? i don t know how that conviction will ultimately play out. i know the people of pennsylvania, they care a lot about four basic things. they want good schools. they want safe communities. they want economic opportunities. and they want their freedoms to be protected. i think they want to be led by someone who is honest and decent. someone who actually is on their side like joe biden. all they hear from donald trump is a whole bunch of whining about this country and i think donald trump has to quit whining. quit trying to divide us. we are producing more energy than anyone before the in this nation. we have the strongest economy in the world and we are beating china for the first time in decades. more people went to work this morning in america than any other time in our nation s history. i have a message to donald trump and all of his negativity and whining, stop shit talking america. this is the greatest country on earth and it is time we start acting like it. the good people of pennsylvania understand this is a great country. they understand we have a lot going for us. and we have time to continue this path of progress that joe biden has laid out and not go back to a negative time. and not listen to the whining of the former president and instead, focus on a positive future for all of us. quit your whining. it is a good message. thank you so much governor schapiro. i always enjoy talking to you. i appreciate it. we will be right back after a quick b break. ack it himmune fight cancer in 2 different ways. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have a cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; irregular heartbeat; diarrhea; constipation; severe stomach pain; severe nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; eye problems; extreme tiredness; changes in appetite, thirst or urine; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; or fever. these are not all the possible side effects. problems can occur together and more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. tell your doctor about all medical conditions including immune or nervous system problems, if you ve had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. your search for 2 immunotherapies starts here. ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. a chance to live longer. first, we did the impossible. then, you ate so many of the impossible that we completely ran out. and now. they re backk! the footlong cookie is back at subway! organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. new centrum menopause supplements help unpause life when symptoms pause it. with a multivitamin plus hot flash support. 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( ) and enxtra for focus and clarity. centrum, powered by clinically studied ingredients. we don t even know yet how any americans will be moved by donald trump s conviction when it is said and done. it is only a couple weeks old. but there early signs that the verdict may be swaying some former trump voters. here s what we heard from some trump voters in a focus group. if they violate the law, then they should be subject to exactly the same rules that all of us are expected to abide to. pay the penalty for the crime. we all know what is going to happen. they will negotiate and he is not going to serve any time. but he will get more time on television. just to underscore, those are a couple of two time trump voters that are essentially saying, lock him up. the publisher of the executive accountability project and conducted the focus group he just heard. dan pfeiffer is the former communications director for barack obama. they are both joining me now. we only played one clip of your great focus groups but that was the two time trump voters that want trump to be held accountable it sounds like. did you get this sense, because the big leap here is the one who to be held accountable, but are they just turned off by trump? or the whale will they just vote for biden instead? or do we know that by your conversations? in this particular group, five out of nine of them, trump voters, five of them were going to vote for biden. i think there are a lot of people that think, somebody that voted for donald trump twice, it seems like a long shot to get them to vote for biden. but i think it is important to understand that for a section of voters who kind of held their nose and voted for donald trump twice and then saw what happened on january 6th, saw donald trump s claims and lies about the election, they were already pretty that was sort of a red line for them. they were pretty far out. what the conviction does is it moves them from and i hear this a lot from a two time trump voters who were upset. saying, i m not going to leave it blank. it got them to a place where they said, this guy is totally unfit to be in the white house. i will vote for biden, not because i want to vote for biden and not because i want to vote for a democrat but because i will vote for anybody that will keep donald trump out of the white house because he is that dangerous. you are always in the selection, especially with the swing voters or the right. for them, you are not building it pro joe biden coalition but an anti-trump coalition. and as donald trump gets back into people s consciousness which is a lot of what is happening with the conviction, people are remembering, yeah, i don t like that guy. you are seeing a shift in voters were before, they were focused on negative things they thought about biden and now they are remembering the negative things they don t like about trump. it is so interesting to watch the focus groups and listen to you talk about them. you know well and i know well that they are big moments in campaigns. we have also seen the campaign sharpening rhetoric around the convictions. and there is a difference between what the campaign says and what michael tyler is saying and what the candidates say. when you look at the debate coming up, is a couple weeks from now, what should the president be saying? he is trying to appeal to the voters and to base voters. what is the right framing of language? the conviction is the elephant in the room. you have to talk about it. and you also don t get in a situation where you would just call him a convicted felon as many times as possible and try to win on points. the conviction is the critical data point in the story that a lot of the polling and focus group say we should be telling about trump which is that he is in this for himself. is running for office to protect himself from further legal jeopardy to help himself and his rich friends and to bring revenge to his enemies. it was that exact attitude, that me first attitude, that got him in this trouble to begin with. you have to take the conviction. this moment that actually caused people to brave out of their anti- politics bubble for a few minutes and pay attention to this race and then use that to tell the more broad story. you can do that in a debate over and over again and do it in a disciplined, calm falls way that is not allowed trump to drag you down into the mud. that makes a huge amount of sense to me. i wanted to ask you a similar version of the story. there are a couple of audiences biden has to appeal to. of these people you talk to and focus groups, is there anything president biden could say about the convictions that would turn them off? is there anything that is a trigger for them about it? when it comes to the swing voters, it is not just what he says but how he says it. for them, they want to see that joe biden can do this job. you have to get people over this hump that they think joe biden is too old. because this is where trump kind of wins often times. he has big lunatic energy that make him seem just more vivacious or more aggressive. and sometimes when he listened to voters, they get into kind of a strong framing where they are like, trump is bad but strong and biden is okay but weak. biden has to show strength. i agree with dan. you can t just say conviction over and over again. but he does have to go on offense. in fact, the whole campaign right now has to go on offense. we are in the moment to push. we have to stop talking about democracy being at stake and the campaign has to campaign like democracy is at stake. joe biden has to show that he is ready to go. i think it is not just the name- calling of convicted felons but being able to say, this man is unfit and i m good to go. and you have to show that and not just tell it. state of the union energy. it is about the vibes i m hearing. i wanted to ask you about you encouraging people not to be stressed. everyone should find it and subscribe to it. we will talk about it next time. thank you both for joining me. we will be right back after a quick break. don t go anywhere! dangerous ladders. gutter muck. yuck. no wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. good thing there s leaffilter. our patented filter technology keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. guaranteed. call 833- leaffilter to get started. and get the permanent gutter solution that ends clogs for good. they took the time to answer all of our questions. they really put us at ease. end clogged gutters for good. call 833.leaf.filter, or visit leaffilter.com today. with fastsigns, create striking custom visuals that inspire pride district-wide. fastsigns. make your statement. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you d like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga when we say it ll be on time, they expect it to be on time. turn shipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. the rachel maddow show starts right now. hi, rachel. hi, yen. thanks very much. much appreciated. thanks to you at home. really happy to have you here. we have an interesting show for you tonight. particularly glad you re here for it. we re going to start a ways

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