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to do. >> yeah. >> they go down the hall and leave one of the shields behind, which supposedly was what they were waiting on, was all this equipment. but they still weren't making entry. >> that's right. >> they just heard additional shots fired. they still are not making entry. >> remind you, there have been 37 minutes between the last time we heard gunshots to now. the idea if they thought it was a bierarricaded situation or no longer an active shooter that is triggered, right? >> and it will be another half an hour before they make entry. >> i just want to talk about one of the vi...

37 minutes between the last time we heard gunshots to now. so the idea of if they thought it was a barricaded situation, or no longer an active shooter, that has now been retriggered. >> and it will be another half an hour before they make entry. >> i just want to talk about the victims, right? because i spoke to one of the mothers of one of the kids who survived. and she told me that her son recollects, remembers someone hearing a police officer say hey, you inside? do you need help? and the kid answers back yeah, we're in here. and then the gunman shoots and kills him. so that is h...

Enforcement, is it odd they would all be deferring to someone at the level of arredondo? where is that own agency leadership here? >> under incident command, which is the way they should be organized at this point in time, when these others agencies would actually be under the command of the person in charge in ics. that's why table top exercises are so important when you bring people together and work through scenarios. that's the whole point of this. yeah, you could bring in a variety of agencies but if you're structured under incident command, people know their role and know who's in charge...

Committee, senior law enforcement official said there was no command, incident command inside. but there was no incident command outside either. so basically, no one was in charge. it was a free-for-all. >> yeah. a command post would have been established outside. >> of course. and that incident commander, which in this case would normally be arredondo, because he owns the turf. he is the school police chief. we are in a school. so by default he would be the incident commander. but he has the ability to delegate tactical command and things like that other people. once bor-tac arrives. >> what ...

Arredondo team over everyone else. but logistic at all these different uniforms. this is not one cohesive unit. you guys, you look at this as law enforcement in particular. is it odd that they would all be deferring to somebody at the level of arredondo? where is there own individual agency leadership here? >> well, under incident command, which is the way they should be organized at this point in time. then these other agencies would actually be under the command of the person in charge in ics. that's why tabletop exercises is so important. when you bring people together and you work through ...