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Infrastructure stuff and say this is a guy with a firm grasp of how to do the job. and for independent, i think the competence part of it is a bigger driver than the ideological part of it, but you put the two many tandem, that he's way too left wing and he's bad at getting it done, and people are like what the hell is going on here? jon: very quickly, he's going out on the road to try to sell these big spending bills. how do you expect him to do? >> not too great. you know, he, he is not great at convincing people who don't already agree with him. you know, his best asset is that he's general...

Adding less, but by way of context, $3.5 trillion, like there's two comparison points and would i say one of them is two decades of war in iraq and afghanistan. we know that's somewhere in the ballpark of $2 trillion and the other is the 2017 republican donald trump tax cut. just a little bit north of $2 trillion so even if you took half of what the democrats are swinging for the fences on it would be at once massive and substantial and also comparable to what republicans have done in recent years to increase the debt ceiling projections so i think somewhere in that space is where a negotiatio...

Bill we have an electric vehicle infrastructure i could go through a list of issues that everybody agrees on. and yes, we have a lot of strong-willed people right now but we got to get it figured out, because it is either mutual disruption or we are going to do what's right for the country in this once in a lifetime opportunity to make a difference in so many people's lives. >> you say that failure is not an option, but you know that it is actually a possibility. it is something that could happen where do things stand now as it relates to the discussions between more progressive wing and moder...

One assumes the economy will be okay and we'll get some infrastructure stuff through. i think biden is at least in decent shape to define to a draw and then it will be trench warfare in the house and the senate in 2022, and then we go back to the question we were talking about in the first segment, can you get some of those moderate voters that did vote for biden to stick with the democrats in 2022, which goes to the question of how worried are they about the republican party? do they think it's a republican party? even their own congressman they think is okay, but you're putting in power a pa...

Infrastructure stuff they want and do all the other things that they want. if they let democracy collapse, it all doesn't matter. >> that's why we love having you. because you tell the truth. facts, first. and by the way, you're right about the ease of voting and what you can do. you know, now -- you know, i sit in my kitchen and i -- checks. i can't believe people still send checks, right? um, and i deposit them. and then, people laugh at me because they are like, you're still writing checks, old man? like, what's wrong with you? you are still carrying cash because everyone is doing zell or v...