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Crime. >> the claim was pushed back on as planting a spy in the campaign. do you think that's significant? >> i do. >> can we take a step back -- can we take a step back for a moment. did you ever take civics in high school, don? >> yeah. >> the executive branch the intel guys in the executive branch say the guys meddled. the law enforcement investigate guys and department of justice, including appointees and fbi says this investigation is so significant we should continue. the legislative branch in concluding the house, most republicans saying no only is trump wrong but we see nothing wrong w...

Evidence to support that. we're at a point now where there's not a factual hook they can go on. when they talk about spies in the campaign, there was a foreman who was around the campaign, here this was just made up. i don't know any fact that they could point to that will get you close to the idea of somebody being framed. that's a crime itself of framing someone of a crime. they're using the man who served this country of economying a crime. >> the claim was pushed back on as planting a spy in the campaign. do you think that's significant? >> i do. >> can we take a step back -- can we take a...

Serious thing here is not the immediate, but the long-term. both serious, but i concern myself with the long tern-term, we are eroding institutions, undercutting public confidence in institutions, we are certainly going to need these institutions again. and now tle will be wounded for the longest time. one other thing i need to point out. in pushing back those institutions, my tribe, the intel guys, yours, journalism, the fbi. we have to be careful in pushing back against a norm-busting administration that we don't violate our own norms. in doing that. because if we do, we only add to the dest...

Many things that is happened and now i've seen a movement, and this concerns me a bit, that the president is making decisions more in isolation. and those most closely around him are becoming more and more like him in the way they think and the way they speak. and so i fear this is month self-healing. mcmaster left, all right? hr tried to move heaven and earth to connect all this. to actual decision-making. and i think the bottom line of his experience is -- i couldn't get -- >> couldn't do it. >> you write about institutions under siege. something we've talked so much about in the last couple...

The result is without obvious parallel in history, a situation in which the personal insecurities of the president and his refusal to accept even what many in his administration regard as objective reality have impaired the government's response to a national security threat, the repercussions radiate across the government. what might those repercussions be? >> so what we have here, jake, i think is a question of degree. i've played this game. i've been in that room. i've gone in there with messages that cut across the president's policies or preferences or even personality. so you've got a he...